I Suppose I Could Check Out These VVT Amps...

smitty_p said:
That's one of the reasons I kind of drifted away from using my Peavey Transtube 212. It does sound good. But, it doesn't respond the same way to pedals - particularly, drive pedals - as a tube amp. Now, I suppose I don't really need a drive pedal with that amp. But, once I finally became accustomed to tube amps, the feel of an SS amp became kind of bland. Though, I initially learned to play electric guitar using processors and SS amps, so getting used to the dynamic responsiveness and gain behavior of a tube amp was a little unnerving, at first.

This is one reason I think people have a hard time telling the difference in just listening tests between tube and solid-state amps. The distinction, I think, is more of a feel and responsiveness thing, not just a just raw sound thing.
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Could be. What I am noticing is the emulation of amps - like the Blackstar ID-60TVP are getting better and better at mimicking tube behavior.

The nuances that some people find with tube amps are also very subjective.
 
smitty_p said:
The distinction, I think, is more of a feel and responsiveness thing, not just a just raw sound thing.
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$$$ Million answer there. You cant get that from any description; you have to feel it to understand it.
Like many things in life that cannot be understood fully unless you have experienced it.

EDIT: and the preference and / or perceived importance of it is indeed subjective.
 
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smitty_p said:
That's one of the reasons I kind of drifted away from using my Peavey Transtube 212. It does sound good. But, it doesn't respond the same way to pedals - particularly, drive pedals - as a tube amp. Now, I suppose I don't really need a drive pedal with that amp. But, once I finally became accustomed to tube amps, the feel of an SS amp became kind of bland. Though, I initially learned to play electric guitar using processors and SS amps, so getting used to the dynamic responsiveness and gain behavior of a tube amp was a little unnerving, at first.

This is one reason I think people have a hard time telling the difference in just listening tests between tube and solid-state amps. The distinction, I think, is more of a feel and responsiveness thing, not just a just raw sound thing.
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no-- I can say -- "dirt pedals" at least with my older silverstripe 112 are NOT required-- this thing has truly STUPID levels of gain built in and if that isnt enough punch the "thrash" button and it just goes beyond DOOM METAL for sure----
IF you use the clean channel-- and ride the transtube and presence you get break up!!!
WHip explains it better----

of course youtubes compression doesnt really do it justice-- but --maybe you can try at home with the 212???-- or outside--
 
Robert Herndon said:
Could be. What I am noticing is the emulation of amps - like the Blackstar ID-60TVP are getting better and better at mimicking tube behavior.

The nuances that some people find with tube amps are also very subjective.
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I think where the effect is most obvious is neither clean nor heavily overdriven. I think the effects of dynamics with tube behavior come into play more at that point where the amp is just on the "knee" of noticeable overdrive. You can almost push your amp into and out of it just by how you attack the strings.

Even then, an audience may not hear it as much as the guitar player may feel it and coax the sound he wants from the amp.

I did not notice this as much with my SS amps. But, I do agree. The SS amps are getting better at capturing this.
 
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syscokid said:
They may or may not be perceptible as far as hearing goes. But if a guitar player feels that his, or hers, playing is more intuitive with a tube amp's response, then the results of that playing will come across on what you can hear.
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Yeah. I remember when I first discovered this on my own. I was literally playing an event and discovered this quite accidentally.

Of course, I’m sure not a single person listening thought, “Hmm...I believe I hear changes in the sound due to tube responsiveness, as influenced by that guitar player’s dynamics.”

But, I heard what was happening as I played. I think I literally cracked a smile and thought, “So, this is what everyone is talking about!”
 
syscokid said:
They may or may not be perceptible as far as hearing goes. But if a guitar player feels that his, or hers, playing is more intuitive with a tube amp's response, then the results of that playing will come across on what you can hear.
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Very intuitive point. When I am uncomfortable with my sound I play with reservations.
 
smitty_p said:
Yeah. I remember when I first discovered this on my own. I was literally playing an event and discovered this quite accidentally.

Of course, I’m sure not a single person listening thought, “Hmm...I believe I hear changes in the sound due to tube responsiveness, as influenced by that guitar player’s dynamics.”

But, I heard what was happening as I played. I think I literally cracked a smile and thought, “So, this is what everyone is talking about!”
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For me, when my c-clamp 'G' has a cutting, almost nasal quality and a palm muted F# has a brutally clear crunch, I start getting excited!!!

Not dynamics, per-se but a quasi-harmonic quality produced by high gain settings and high output pickups.

Now, if I was playing in an AC/DC tribute, a tube amp would be all that is needed and my DSL40C would be perfect for that style of playing.
 
syscokid said:
They may or may not be perceptible as far as hearing goes. But if a guitar player feels that his, or hers, playing is more intuitive with a tube amp's response, then the results of that playing will come across on what you can hear.
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Big perception I get with modeling amps is that they can't mimic the response of a tube amp when you roll the volume back. I'm frequently down at 2 or 3 on the volume, and with a (good) tube amp you have dynamics, detail, presence and responsiveness...you can go from subtle shades of notes/tones to boisterous crunch just by varying your attack. No such thing with any modeling amp I have tried - you end up with weird digital remnants and something that sounds like a computer's "interpretation" of the sound you were going for. This definitely effects the way I play and choose to control the guitar, and therefore limits me creatively.

I've no doubt that eventually they'll get this trait of tube amps modeled correctly, but for now the makers of these amps are far, far from the mark.
 
smitty_p said:
Yup.

Good description.
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I can't really recall turning my guitar volume down. I mean, yes, I have done it on clean parts but hardly ever on overdriven sections. I hear that tonal loss immediately. The sound gets thin and I suddenly feel naked.

The two exception(s) would be AC/DC's "hard as a rock" and "rock and roll ain't noise pollution." Both of those songs require turning down the guitar volume level a bit in the beginning.

I do like totally clean parts sometimes - like the parts i played on a Stratocaster (position #4) during the chorus of 'Perfect Strangers.'

When I think about two guitar tones that really grab me sonically - its Def Leppard's Pyromania (said to be Pete Willis's Randalls) and Crosby's rhythm tone on 'Round and Round.

I keep hearing that in my head.
 
gball said:
No offense, but if that's the case you need a new amp more than you think.
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I've encountered that effect with lots of amps. It's why I run a volume pedal in the effects loop so I can turn down without losing presence.

I suppose one could turn the guitar volume down the boost it with the volume pedal???
 
smitty_p said:
I have a friend who has one of the VVTs (though I don't recall the model). I've played through his. They are pretty impressive. What is most impressive is that you can get this fat distortion without being fizzy, and still hear the note definition in the chords.

Being locally-made, some of the local music stores have them. I suppose I should go check one out.
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Umm, when you do, I wanna trek on down to Smittyville, I mean Waldorf.
 
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