Absolutely!!!!
I LOVE music...but for me, it's a living too...
How to destroy a amp
- Thread starter 67plexi
- Start date
Absolutely!!!!
I LOVE music...but for me, it's a living too...
There's always exceptions...
I have zero concern as long as I'm getting paid, but lots of guys who swear by tube-this and tube-that live, still use emulation in the studio.
Unless you are Dwight Yoakham 'big,' most labels will cap the amount of studio time you have and often that's spelled out in your contract.
What the producer says, goes, in all but the biggest grossing artists.
I'll wait as long as the meter is running.
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
funny but I cant name a single "tool" song nor do I care.
not saying his methods are wrong just saying WHO IS ADAM JONES? (not a TOOL fan-- frankly dont know a single song)
Also and --the minute any tone hits the "recording board" regardless of method its produced (tube --ss --stinker you name it) or microphone/cable/osmosis used to get it recorded
it is now then and forever digitally influenced/enhanced and "f'ed" with .... why does it matter how its created in the first place?
a mono tweed becomes a stereo signal -- HOW is that TRUE reproduction (its not ) none of it is
frankly none of it matters -- you like the song/band/emotion -- regardless of how its presented
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I beg to differ, at least somewhat Robert, even though I know that you are far more experienced & knowledgeable than I regarding recording studio practices & techniques.
When it comes to musical artists/bands, whether one likes their music or not, it really does not get much bigger than that the Stones. Now the stones don't need to go to a studio to record. At the very least they have Keith's "mobile" (that has constantly been upgraded, expanded, fitted into bigger & newer trucks etc etc & is arguably the best of its kind, anywhere), that has been (& still is) used in the recording of countless of the absolute biggest names in rock & roll.
So when they use a studio, we can kinda take it that the studio, recording equipment, recording techniques etc are upto par.
Their 2020 "Blue & Lonesome" album featured guest artists of the calibre of Chuck Leavell (keys) & Eric Clapton. A goodly amount of instrument tracks were recorded at Henson Studios, Los Angeles California.
(as this is an amp forum & we love old Fender amps, I'll include a couple of pics of just one of the main amps ('54 Tweed Pro) Keef used during the sessions)
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Ok, back to the point. All guitars/amps, piano, Hammond B3/Leslie, harmonicas, drums etc were recorded the old school way, in the room with real microphones on them.
Now the Stones are not shy to embrace new technologies, hell, the development of IMAX film & time aligned FOH sound systems are just two of the technologies we owe to the Glimmer Twins (Jagger/Richards).
Musicians of this calibre can basically record where-ever they want, using whatever technologies & techniques they want. They obviously knew that Henson Studios in Los Angeles could cater to their needs in recording the old school way with guitars etc plugged into real amps & mics on everything.
There is no doubt that simulations & other technologies produce outstanding results without real amps/cabinets/microphones being used. The other side of the coin is that good many of the biggest names in the biz insist on recording the traditional way. Hell, how many big names from all genres are going to Nashville's Third Man Records to record direct to acetate.
Cheers
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Hey, @ivan H !!!!
Good points and if you recall, I said if you are "big enough," there are "always exceptions" - and I stipulate to your evidence regarding The Stones.
Joe Bonnamassa is also a die hard amp user and Joe is big enough to call his own shots.
Alex Lifeson has an Axe-FX backing up his entire rack on the last tour. Scott Appleton (his tech) talked about it in a Rig Rundown.
Nita Strauss uses the GT-10 live and in studio.
Have a look at the sheer number of Axe-FX users here:
Artists - Fractal Audio Systems
Top artists praise Fractal Audio for its unmatched tone, flexibility, and innovation, highlighting its ability to replace entire rigs, deliver studio-quality sound, and inspire creativity both live and in the studio.
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Jethro Rocker
Ambassador of Live & Loud Action
I have not many monkeys in this circus. Our tiny city doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of recording artists, however, good music is good music.
Where we record I bring whatever guitar and amp or amps I want. While I am new to this and dude has got many software amps, he lets me be comfortable being me. Most people play in his control room with the ISO box. I played standing up in the live room with a speaker plus he micd the iso. That's how to get the best out of my performance.
I could play in the control room with the monitors amd use software amps but as an artist, limited though I am ni recording, prefer this way and he can get the best performance from me.
Whatever works for said artists. I would even prefer a 4x12 with some distant mics but there is no room there.
Where we record I bring whatever guitar and amp or amps I want. While I am new to this and dude has got many software amps, he lets me be comfortable being me. Most people play in his control room with the ISO box. I played standing up in the live room with a speaker plus he micd the iso. That's how to get the best out of my performance.
I could play in the control room with the monitors amd use software amps but as an artist, limited though I am ni recording, prefer this way and he can get the best performance from me.
Whatever works for said artists. I would even prefer a 4x12 with some distant mics but there is no room there.
Few know that Amplitude 2 Simulation was used on AC/DC's Black Ice.
@gball - Most bands I play with and around are using a Headrush Gigboard or Line 6 Helix.
This Kat had some interesting gear where I was guest guitar tech recently...
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
And a great one to make Robert!
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
I'm guessin that would be to record a clean guitar signal, and then re-amp it later as needed.
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
Quite the minimalist board, but covering pretty much everything tonewise, even eliminating the need to connect to an amp... clever.
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SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
Well, I think they would need to have some really good guitars and really, really outstanding guitarists to play them... as well as some mighty fine engineers, to be able to get quality product that way.
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
And I'm not even mentioning some mythical level SSL / Trident / Neve consoles loaded with every recording engineer's wet-dream channel strips that would have to be factored in to make that happen.
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
AH, the old "if it ain't broke no need to fix it" mentality... Too bad their sense of what's broke and not is adjusted in reference to their own "reality bubble". But as I like to say: "if it works, it works". And it seems to work for that certain segment of country music.You would think so, right, but he didn't see it that way. He said the tones they recorded were straightty and amps made all the difference. So thats really a mixed bag in the context of this discussion: Amps sound better but they also won't use them.
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
Is this channel on YT?
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
Gonna give it a whirl. Sounds like it has interesting content...
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I believe this was (first) done on the song "Revolution" with both John & George's guitars to get a "dirtier" guitar tone. A DI box was used to inject the guitar signal into the console's pre-amp which was overdriven, the signal then taken out & run into a second channel's pre-amp, again overdriven. Remember, these were tube consoles that they were using. Cheers
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Good points, @Jethro Rocker
Funny story...
Not long ago, an up and coming L.A. female artist's label booked her a lock-out (closed studio) to record material for an album. I was pulled in along with a couple of other support guys.
The girl had a Princeton and probably dicked around 45 minutes, strumming chords, changing the microphone placement / amp settings and asking for playback over the monitors.
About this time, the producer punches in and says, "We're not spending any more time on this." He turns to the engineer and says, "Load her a sim."
She throws a fit. Goes on a rant about creativity and being stifled and organics, blah, blah, blah.
The producer punches into everyone's headset, "Now, we can load a sim and get down to business, or I call Don on the 7th (floor) and tell him you've decided to fund this project on your own and you can take it up with the label's attorneys. Doesn't matter to me, I'm still getting paid."
She seemed to get right down to business after that, as breach of contract is a powerful motivator...
Kenny Wayne Shepherd still likes "real" amps!!!!
SIx String Chef
Ambassador of Taste
It's always refreshing and just plain good to see that there are still artists that have managed to either empower (and/or fund) themselves loose from, or completely elude the "shake hands with the label (sorry... meant devil)" trap... Usually at the expense of their careers.
Not trying to badmouth the labels (either corporate behemoths or indie mom-and-pops) here, just never been too fond of how the brutally raw politics and practices of business are applied to the treatment of and lack of respect to the artist and their creative process / output. Don't even get me started on the incredibly and unfairly lopsided contracts that favour the labels in a grossly disproportionate way... Hopefully some day ethics will have a better seat at the record deal table.
Aaaand.... that was my rant for the day, I'm spent!
I don't read all that into it. I love music, but it's also my only source of income, so regardless of what I may like (or love) at the end of the day, I'm "on-board" with whatever makes me a good living.
I've worked in the capacity of both engineer and producer, so I "get" the practice of streamlining methodologies in a recording environment.
I want to ask this question honestly, because it might help you better understand how I see things.
Can you imagine the pressure of being told that you have been put in charge of a 10 hour block of studio time, that someone is paying $3,000.00 for, and you are expected to ensure that a quality product is produced within the slotted time frame???
In that context, I could care less about flase nuances, or the voice of a particular tube, or all other manner of hocus-pocus that 'might' produce a subtlety that 'might' make it onto digital medium.
Now, having said that...I have worked on projects where we spent an entire studio "day" swapping out cabinets and changing microphone placement because the artist had "Carte Blanche" and the bankroll was unlimited.
On the same hand, I've seen guys like Joe B produce an absolutely glorious tone with a vintage Les Paul and a Blackface, only to see a guy on YouTube match it, note for note, nuance for nuance (and in some cases even more organic sounding) with Axe-FX.
OP
67plexi
Ambassador of Amps
Speaking of Kenny Wayne Shepherd I let him play with my band in 1992 kid was good his mom was smoking hot
I let him play my 1961 Strat two black face Fender twins boss CE2 and a tube driver Kenny said that was his dream guitar
Next my friend Mark worked on Kenny's Dumble modified Fender Tweed Deluxe amp Mark sent me a layout with voltage chart
sounds like a amp should sound Kenny Wayne Shepherd reveals his onstage Fender amps are actually Dumbles in disguise
As far as Marshall amps go I still own five 1967 to 1971 they sound fine stock My Park 75 Marshall I replaced the 32uf Hunts capacitors with 47uf F & T
devalued the amp by $1000.00 a little thing like a replaced transformer can devalue a amp by 50%
I let him play my 1961 Strat two black face Fender twins boss CE2 and a tube driver Kenny said that was his dream guitar
Next my friend Mark worked on Kenny's Dumble modified Fender Tweed Deluxe amp Mark sent me a layout with voltage chart
sounds like a amp should sound Kenny Wayne Shepherd reveals his onstage Fender amps are actually Dumbles in disguise
As far as Marshall amps go I still own five 1967 to 1971 they sound fine stock My Park 75 Marshall I replaced the 32uf Hunts capacitors with 47uf F & T
devalued the amp by $1000.00 a little thing like a replaced transformer can devalue a amp by 50%