Hot Rodding a DSL40C???

gball said:
Eh, seems like not that big a deal to me (It's rock and roll, after all). Every time I am watching a live band there's all kinds of hiss and squeal from the backline.
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I'm inclined to agree with you, although it did concern me because I thought something was going out and imagined it taking a dump mid-solo or mid-show, but I think you are right, maybe this is just nature of the beast so to speak????
 
Robert Herndon said:
But the day I first plugged it in, I knew something was off. Of course, this industry (and often our peers) encourage us to modify things until they sound right. I too took this approach.
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You make some very interesting observations.

It prompts kind of a “gee-whiz” question...

Have ever noticed in amplifier specs how often you’ll see the same tubes used in different brands of amplifiers, yet how different those amps sound? Sometimes you’ll even see the same speaker in the specs.

What does that tell you?

It means there is WAY more to an amp’s character than just tubes. It’s largely all the circuitry around those tubes. I think @gball described this in another post somewhere as the amp’s DNA. That’s a pretty apt description. I like it.

It’s very possible that your DSL-40 just isn’t for you. You’ve commented before that the sound is great for the AC/DC-type sound but isn’t great when pushed beyond that. The amp very possibly works great for the sound someone else wants, but isn’t the ideal tool for your needs. There’s no harm or shame in that.

It comes down to purposes. I can drive nails with both a claw hammer and a ball-peen hammer. But, a ball-peen hammer would soon show its drawbacks as a carpentry tool and the claw hammer would soon show its drawbacks as a metal-working tool. So, yeah, two different amps may ~work~ but one likely is better for the task at hand. You may be trying to use a claw hammer when you should be using a ball-peen hammer!

I tend to think when people push mods, they are more thinking of tweaks to make improvements here and there. I don’t think they are trying to fundamentally change the character of the amp. Of course, those mods will be described as making a tremendous difference, but I suspect they are more incremental in nature.

For me, my little DSL-5c driving a speaker mic’ed in an isocab works great. But, I’m not really trying for a metal sound, either. It’s more of hard-ish rock sound, at most. But, I also use effects more often than you and I’m willing to use additional equalization. I’m not relying on just the amp for all my tone shaping. So, I realize our paradigms are different.

Robert Herndon said:
Now, I have been scolded privately for not running a TS-9 as a clean boost and running the amp only on the 'green channel.' However, to my mind, then why have a 2 channel amp???
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My thoughts exactly. You should be able to use your second channel! I do use a Tubescreamer in my clean channel, but more to provide an intermediate drive level between my clean channel and my drive channel.
 
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eSGEe said:
stick with mesa

I dont know never rubbed my junk on an engl --- anyone got one I can play with ??????? ;)
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Adrian, while I know you are a couple years younger than I am, I had a major cutie named Ginger Engl whom I definitely could have had thoughts like those you mention above.
 
smitty_p said:
You make some very interesting observations.

It prompts kind of a “gee-whiz” question...

Have ever noticed in amplifier specs how often you’ll see the same tubes used in different brands of amplifiers, yet how different those amps sound? Sometimes you’ll even see the same speaker in the specs.

What does that tell you?

It means there is WAY more to an amp’s character than just tubes. It’s largely all the circuitry around those tubes. I think @gball described this in another post somewhere as the amp’s DNA. That’s a pretty apt description. I like it.

It’s very possible that your DSL-40 just isn’t for you. You’ve commented before that the sound is great for the AC/DC-type sound but isn’t great when pushed beyond that. The amp very possibly works great for the sound someone else wants, but isn’t the ideal tool for your needs. There’s no harm or shame in that.

It comes down to purposes. I can drive nails with both a claw hammer and a ball-peen hammer. But, a ball-peen hammer would soon show its drawbacks as a carpentry tool and the claw hammer would soon show its drawbacks as a metal-working tool. So, yeah, two different amps may ~work~ but one likely is better for the task. You may be trying to use a claw hammer when you should be using a ball-peen hammer!

I tend to think when people push mods, they are more thinking of tweaks to make improvements here and there. I don’t think they are trying to fundamentally change the character of the amp. Of course, those mods will be described as making a tremendous difference, but I suspect they are more incremental in nature.

For me, my little DSL-5c driving a speaker mic’ed in an isocab works great. But, I’m not really trying for a metal sound, either. It’s more of hard-ish rock sound, at most. But, I also use effects more often than you and I’m willing to use additional equalization. I’m not relying on just the amp for all my tone shaping. So, I realize our paradigms are different.



My thoughts exactly. You should be able to use your second channel! I do use a Tubescreamer in my clean channel, but more to provide an intermediate drive level between my clean channel and my drive channel.
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Very wise observations, Smitty.

I think it's taken me a while to accept that the DSL40C isn't going to work for me....at least not without a clean boost on the green channel, which seems to be how most folks appear to be using it.

Now that the frugal side of me has finally accepted that I'm gonna lose money on the DSL40C, I'm at last ok with that.

I like having two channels- clean and overdrive - without using a pedal for gain. I believe it (gain) is more organic when gain is produced by the tube section alone.

When I play - for example - Rory Gallagher's 'Road To Hell," I dont grab a Stratocaster and try to emulate Rory, I play it on a Les Paul EQ'd to sound like me. Same approach with our other covers.

Once I am EQ'd to my ear's satisfaction, I never change it. I may pick harder or lighter, but the EQ never changes.

Although I won't ever sound like others, I would describe my personal tone as a cross between Rhoad's 'Flyin High Again' and Crosby's tone on 'Round and Round."

Looking back on my Matshall 2203, I recall it had (4) power tubes and 5 or 6 pre-amp tubes(extra gain stage???) And something (known back then in the 1980's) as a "one-wire mod," all done before I got it.

Gain was never, ever a problem. If anything, i may have had too much!!! So, I guess that was my benchmark for evaluation anyways...same with multi speakers.

I sold that rig to downsize and i have to be honest - I've been disappointed ever since.

I did OK playing through the Line6 Spider2 HD75 and the Jackson 4x12 cabinet. It was bought specifically for Mojave Wasteland Weekend and never got used again. However, there are two things...I dont think the gain is as organic (as Marshall) and then (in theory) I am back to lugging a 4x12, so this is my "special occasion" rig that I keep in reserve.

It's odd to me that the old 1997 Valvestate VS265 2X12 combo has such great sound, despite so much abuse and age.

With a Genelex B759 there is abundant gain. In fact, tube swaps always had a huge effect on the VS265 and a much more subtle effect on the DSL40C for some reason.

At any rate, the answer is stick with the Valvestate. In fact I got a deal cooking now for a one-owner Valvestate 2x12 as a 'number one' combo amp and will start looking for an AVT50 head.

I really do like Marshall tone, but there's something about the DSL40C that is really nothing like what I was expecting...
 
Robert Herndon said:
Very wise observations, Smitty.

I think it's taken me a while to accept that the DSL40C isn't going to work for me....at least not without a clean boost on the green channel, which seems to be how most folks appear to be using it.
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Believe me. I understand. I’ve had after-purchase regret with an amp, too. It’s never fun to have that realization after a couple of weeks that you’re not as happy with it as you hoped you’d be.
 
smitty_p said:
Believe me. I understand. I’ve had after-purchase regret with an amp, too. It’s never fun to have that realization after a couple of weeks that you’re not as happy with it as you hoped you’d be.
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Yep...I have made a few foolish purchases on impulse.
 
Played a few nice amps at Guitar Sinner yesterday. The Boss Katana, the Boss Nextone Artist and the Marshall Origin 50. I couldn't even get $350.00 trade in on the DSL40C and the Weber Lass Lite 100 Watt Attenuator. Right now, the VS265 seems to be giving me a great tone...So I will probably either give the DSL40C away to someone in need of a good amp, or strip it down and start doing all these modifications suggested by AmpMad Scientist to roll off the low frequencies...

1. Lowering the 4.7uF cathode bypass cap C12 down to 1uF

Schematic.png
 
Robert Herndon said:
Played a few nice amps at Guitar Sinner yesterday. The Boss Katana, the Boss Nextone Artist and the Marshall Origin 50. I couldn't even get $350.00 trade in on the DSL40C and the Weber Lass Lite 100 Watt Attenuator. Right now, the VS265 seems to be giving me a great tone...So I will probably either give the DSL40C away to someone in need of a good amp, or strip it down and start doing all these modifications suggested by AmpMad Scientist to roll off the low frequencies...

1. Lowering the 4.7uF cathode bypass cap C12 down to 1uF

View attachment 24354
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Did Ampmadscientist (Or anybody else) mention anything about the .022 C-10 cap?
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
LOL sysco,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You know ampmadscientist too, huh. He was nice enough to chat with me over at Marshall ampforum on some things too.
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Nah, don't really know him very much. The few times that I have wandered over to the Marshall forum, I have noticed some of his postings. I also have noticed that a few other regular members over there are constantly disrespectful towards him. I don't like this type of bullsh!t vibe at a forum.
 
syscokid said:
Nah, don't really know him very much. The few times that I have wandered over to the Marshall forum, I have noticed some of his postings. I also have noticed that a few other regular members over there are constantly disrespectful towards him. I don't like this type of bullsh!t vibe at a forum.
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He's been very cool....I just question my ability to execute these modifications accurately.
 
syscokid said:
Nah, don't really know him very much. The few times that I have wandered over to the Marshall forum, I have noticed some of his postings. I also have noticed that a few other regular members over there are constantly disrespectful towards him. I don't like this type of bullsh!t vibe at a forum.
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I also don't like badmouthing or acting superior and like a jerk to anyone in a forum. NOW, if 2 bro's are ribbing each other, that's different. But as some know too well, because we can't actually see people but just the typed words, sometimes even joking can be misinterpreted.

I will say my experiences over at Marshall are different than yours sysco, I never observed any bad mouthing yet. Other forums yes, the places I have been in MAF, no.

Another really nice and smart guy over at Marshall Amp Forum is Neikeel
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
Another really nice and smart guy over at Marshall Amp Forum is Neikeel
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Yes. I know him from the Metroamp forum. There are quite a few knowledgeable members at Metroamp. @ivan H participates over there sometimes. The problem with Metroamp's forum is that in the last 5 years, that forum has suffered some serious downtimes due to some major technical problems in keeping the site operating properly. These unfortunate problems has led to a big drop in activity from a lot of the regular members over there. In other words... It's kind of dead over there.
 
syscokid said:
Regarding specifically DSL's: No. Never seen the insides of one in person. Just from some pics. I have no idea how much of a PITA it will be to access the components that might need to be modded.
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I'm nervous takin on surface mount components.
 
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