Gibson suing again: Jericho Guitars is in the crosshairs
- Thread starter Clockworkmike
- Start date
That's tough - IMHO - in the current market/economy. It seems like efforts to price cut and still make it Made In USA just doesn't work.
Look at Fender's dismal USA quality. The current MIJ Fender's are actually better in terms of accuracy, fit and finish.
My $3,000 Gibson Les Paul is exceptional, as one would expect....but i had some very dismal $800 Gibson experiences, but, TBTH, looking back at how much Gibson had to "trim" from the Les Paul to bring it in at $800 (what i paid brand new for my 2016 50's Tribute T Series) its not surprising (to me) the quality was so lackluster.
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bea
AmBASSador of the F Clef
And the fender amplifiers were nothing but standard radio technology of that time.
But back to Jericho and the copyright / trademark issue:
as far as i remember the old lawsuit outcome with Ibanez, it was just the headstock that could be trademarked / copyrighted (remember that especially the Les Paul is nothing but a traditional archtop shape with Florentine cutaway), and specifically that concerned only Gibson's Open Book headstocks.
Otherwise the standard headstock of Jackson and those of Dean would be copyright infringements - both designs had been invented by Gibson, the Dean headstock had been part of the original and at its time patented design of the explorer - not the hockey stick variant.
So the Jericho guy seems to have had a pretty thorough look on the existing legislation and designed his guitars NOT to violate those old sentences.
bea
AmBASSador of the F Clef
My son's 570-€ worn LP Junior with burstbuckers 2 is a really great sounding and inspiring guitar. Despite of its ugly color.
Well, I've done some more digging. This gets interesting (to me anyway...'cuz I'm weird, like that)....
In 1993 Gibson did receive a trademark on the Les Paul shape. Trademarks do not expire, like patents, so it remains in force. When the 2004 lawsuit against PRS was overturned, the basic bottom line of the overruling was that the PRS guitar would never be reasonably confused with a Les Paul. Essentially, Gibson does have a trademark, but PRS did not violate it. There's more to it than that, but that is my summary.
So, whereas Gibson does have a trademark on the specific Les Paul shape, they do not, however, have any claims on the generic single-cut design.
At this point, the question may be raised as to why we see Les Paul style guitars still being built.
Well, because there are no trademark police running around looking for trademark violations. It is up to the trademark holder (in this case, Gibson) to identify and challenge those potential violations. Any builder can make that shape and hope to fly under Gibson's radar or they may think they've made some alteration that will stand up in court. Of course, individual builders may have other reasons, but the mere presence of a rule does not mean someone will not push the envelope of that rule or outright violate it. It may also be that some builders are better luthiers than legal beagles and they just simply aren't aware of Gibson's trademark.
This pretty much leads to the situation we see now.
(Incidentally, I'm reevaluating my thought in my post above that the Jericho Les Paul style guitar may survive a challenge. Given that Gibson actually has a trademark on that particular shape, and the Jericho body shape perfectly mimics it, it seems more possible to me now that they may lose that challenge, too. But, these things are hard to predict. Others have noted that Jericho has pulled that shape from their website. Maybe Jericho is realizing it's a risky battle, too.)
That is true. But, the decision to challenge anything is up to the trademark holder. All Gibson chose to challenge at the time was the headstock shape. During the time Gibson was challenging Ibanez, Gibson did not yet have a trademark on the Les Paul shape. They did get a trademark for the Les Paul shape in 1993 - long after the issues with Ibanez.
But, Gibson's trademark on the Les Paul shape only applies to the Les Paul shape. It doesn't give Gibson any rights over a generic, single-cut body style.
BFT Gibson
Ambassador of Originality
Interestingly, my only keepers are after the gear purge of what is actually needed to function as a musician SGJ 61 zebra & faded 490/490 all i kept after owning almost everything, found the stripped down versions amazing players,,beat on em, they stay in tune, record in a mix excellently in a M or F or MB circuit, very well balanced contrary to what i read
Its like anything else we all need to find our fit in life & then enjoy. After owning 20 plus over the years never had a bad one actually, maybe the intense due diligence in picking one out is the key..do we cave to public opinion or be our own & what works for us no matter what people spend more time arguing about then actually playing..i
Its like anything else we all need to find our fit in life & then enjoy. After owning 20 plus over the years never had a bad one actually, maybe the intense due diligence in picking one out is the key..do we cave to public opinion or be our own & what works for us no matter what people spend more time arguing about then actually playing..i
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OP
Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
I think Jericho would mostly win in an argument for their Les Paul, due to the big differences in the headstocks vs Gibson. The guitar design is pretty spot on, but, so far Heritage Guitars has managed to beat Gibson in that area too.
The one that I believe will cause some real hurt on Jericho however, is their Nomad Supernova. It's a direct copy of the standard Gibson Explorer, very specifically, early 80s models like the Explorer II. The headstock is also directly based on the famous "Banana/Hockey stick" design and that will be where Jericho will have a hard time defending themselves. That is directly what caused Ibanez to lose the lawsuit Gibson laid on them in the 70s for the original Destroyer design, forcing Ibanez to change it to arguably a more famous variation. So it really worked out for them better in a weird way.
In any event, on the topic of Gibson: I'm admittedly extremely biased towards them ever since first wanting an SG when I was 12 years old and then biting my nails waiting to get an Explorer one day. But the fact is, Gibson's policies are indeed alienating a lot of people and I don't mean just the trademark/copyright issues but the insane pricing and quality control issues they began suffering in the early 2000s to mid 2010s( though those have largely improved in the last few years).
Gibson has turned their attention towards more elite buyers and made it harder for average people to get a great guitar at a reasonable price. There are still wonderful guitars at moderate prices but it's hard to find one that's excellent under $1200-$1500. That's inside Fender's elite pricing range and can get a buyer a top grade guitar in many other brands. There is where Gibson has been screwing up for the past few decades unfortunately.
The one that I believe will cause some real hurt on Jericho however, is their Nomad Supernova. It's a direct copy of the standard Gibson Explorer, very specifically, early 80s models like the Explorer II. The headstock is also directly based on the famous "Banana/Hockey stick" design and that will be where Jericho will have a hard time defending themselves. That is directly what caused Ibanez to lose the lawsuit Gibson laid on them in the 70s for the original Destroyer design, forcing Ibanez to change it to arguably a more famous variation. So it really worked out for them better in a weird way.
In any event, on the topic of Gibson: I'm admittedly extremely biased towards them ever since first wanting an SG when I was 12 years old and then biting my nails waiting to get an Explorer one day. But the fact is, Gibson's policies are indeed alienating a lot of people and I don't mean just the trademark/copyright issues but the insane pricing and quality control issues they began suffering in the early 2000s to mid 2010s( though those have largely improved in the last few years).
Gibson has turned their attention towards more elite buyers and made it harder for average people to get a great guitar at a reasonable price. There are still wonderful guitars at moderate prices but it's hard to find one that's excellent under $1200-$1500. That's inside Fender's elite pricing range and can get a buyer a top grade guitar in many other brands. There is where Gibson has been screwing up for the past few decades unfortunately.
Well, that all depends on how the case is presented and how the court handles it. It isn't necessarily the guitar design as a whole.
Gibson has a trademark on the headstock shape and another trademark on the Les Paul shape. They could go after Jericho for the body shape alone (which, I suspect is the case). In Gibson's court win against Dean, it was all about the body shape. Dean lost even though the headstocks are very different from Gibson's.
As for the Heritage design, it is not exactly like the Les Paul. The lower horn falls away from the guitar more. But, Gibson always has Heritage in it's sights. Heritage is probably riding the bleeding edge of a lawsuit at all times!
OP
Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
You know the crappy thing about Gibson attacking Heritage all the time, is in essence anyways; Heritage has a lot of claims to being as authentic as Gibson. They were composed of a lot of Gibson's luthiers who refused to relocate from Kalamazoo to Nashville and decided to begin operations within the premises of the old Parsons Street facility, even using some of the remaing tools and machinery.
I remember reading by fans saying they were all hand made but that's a bit of a misunderstanding: while they don't use more modernized CNC machines on the production lines, they do use an old hand made carving machine the original luthiers came up with when Gibson left the facility and took their CNC machines with them. So in that sense, they are indeed more hand made I guess you could argue than Gibson
Keith says stop the madness Gibson..o
Avoid that shrill screech at all costs.
Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
No screech there , just the smooth sexy tones playing from the Tele Master himself..
Keith says stop the madness Gibson..o
Avoid that shrill screech
No screech there , just the smooth sexy tones playing from the Tele Master himself..
Nope...
Keith says stop the madness Gibson..o
Avoid that shrill screech
No screech there , just the smooth sexy tones playing from the Tele Master himself..
I do like Keith's tone on Start Me Up.