Gibson Neck Angles:

[RVA]

Not if they stand behind them and make the buyer whole. Perfection does not exist in the real world...Where is the outrage? Guess I missed it.

Fixing a mistake is not the same as not avoiding them. The mistakes being made are mistakes that were not made in the past with regard to the same issues, which would seem to indicate a blameworthy issue, not an honest opportunity to learn. I have not heard outrage, but I have heard a steady chorus of disappointment in Gibson's attention to marketing over workmanship. As for my qualifications to make this analysis, I have been reading peoples comments on guitars on the internet, both the inane and the intelligent, for the past 8 years. Also, hands on experience has led me to be one of the disappointed masses. This does not make me an expert, but I am at least some of the smoke to indicate a fire.

 

[Inspector #20]

Fixing a mistake is not the same as not avoiding them. The mistakes being made are mistakes that were not made in the past with regard to the same issues, which would seem to indicate a blameworthy issue, not an honest opportunity to learn. I have not heard outrage, but I have heard a steady chorus of disappointment in Gibson's attention to marketing over workmanship. As for my qualifications to make this analysis, I have been reading peoples comments on guitars on the internet, both the inane and the intelligent, for the past 8 years. Also, hands on experience has led me to be one of the disappointment masses. This does not make me an expert, but I am at least some of the smoke to indicate a fire.

My voice was in that chorus as well....

 

[smitty_p]

I would, however, buy a Gibson husk, like Smitty did, if the basic construction was within tolerance. That's a smart purchase.

Yeah, there are advantages to that. You can build it up the way you want it. Plus, since someone else already parted it out, you can pretty much ignore originality, if you care about that sort of thing.

I'm really looking forward to the end result of my project...which is getting rather involved!

But, for me I'm not as concerned about certain specs and tolerance. I care if it plays well, sounds good, stays in tune, looks good, and feels nice to me. For example, if the neck angle varies by a degree one way or the other, but I find that the resulting instrument feels good, I'm happy. In fact, if there is some "anomaly" that actually makes the guitar feel better to me, I'll look at it as a bonus!

 

[Inspector #20]

Yeah, there are advantages to that. You can build it up the way you want it. Plus, since someone else already parted it out, you can pretty much ignore originality, if you care about that sort of thing.

I'm really looking forward to the end result of my project...which is getting rather involved!

But, for me I'm not as concerned about certain specs and tolerance. I care if it plays well, sounds good, stays in tune, looks good, and feels nice to me. For example, if the neck angle varies by a degree one way or the other, but I find that the resulting instrument feels good, I'm happy. In fact, if there is some "anomaly" that actually makes the guitar feel better to me, I'll look at it as a bonus!

In total agreement, Smitty...

I guess, if you consider the nearly 1/2" of Faber shims under my SG tailpiece, as long as the strings clear the bridge, it's ok, but I had to use longer tailpiece studs too because I was running out of thread and the tailpiece was tilted towards the bridge.

It just really bugs me to see things out of whack when the manufacturers tolerance is so precise... 5 degrees +\- 15 seconds...it makes me doubt everything about the instrument.

Then, I look at my Les Paul Custom 'R'...tailpiece on the body, bridge has only two threads exposed and action is in the .050's on the bass side and .030's on the treble side.

The Les Paul Custom 'R' reminded me of a time when guitars were fun to play. This thing has been pure enjoyment. From watching its build progress, to the first strum, just an absolute pleasure...everywhere I check intonation, its in and when I play it, there is a feeling of sonic freedom...a confidence if you will, that surfaces in my playing.

I'm not the best guitarist. I'm quite musically illiterate, but when a guitar sounds right... is in pitch, has a nice, thick tone, good sustain and rich, stinging harmonics, I find myself playing a little more aggressively....a little more fluidly....

Its certainly not a perfect guitar, but it is well balanced in every regard....

 

[smitty_p]

The Les Paul Custom 'R' reminded me of a time when guitars were fun to play. This thing has been pure enjoyment. From watching its build progress, to the first strum, just an absolute pleasure...everywhere I check intonation, its in and when I play it, there is a feeling of sonic freedom...a confidence if you will, that surfaces in my playing.

Then, I'm happy for you! I really do understand the joy of sitting down with a guitar that just feels right.

BTW, for my own information...did your luthier shield the guitar? If so, what did he use?

 

[Gahr]

God, I must be one lucky sod. I've had six Gibsons (four SGs and two Les Pauls, sold one Lester to buy one of the SGs), and there hasn't been anything wrong with any of them. With good setups they have all played great.

I've modded all of them to different degrees, but never because the guitar was faulty to begin with.

 

[gball]

More Gibson-bashing? I don't understand why so many people keep buying them if all they want to do is talk about how crappy Gibsons are and point out everything they feel is wrong with the company and their products. Buy something else! If someone perceives them to be flawed, spend your money elsewhere. Why continually nitpick and in turn bash a product you clearly don't like and don't want?

I've purchased 10 new Gibson guitars in the last 2 years and I am not sure what anyone is talking about! Gibson, IMO, is putting out the best, most consistent products in their history (yes, their entire history - '50's "grail" Gibsons are incredibly inconsistent from one to the next). Tailpiece height is an indicator of?? The height of the tailpiece. Nothing more.

And in the real (non-internet) world?? I never hear anyone talking smack about Gibson. The occasional anecdotal internet thread does not prove anything about quality and consistency. If people really, truly believe they can get something "better" for a fraction of the price then just do it and quit the griping about Gibson. I am many others understand the quality and tone that I am buying and know exactly where my money is going.

 

[DonP]

Gibson do make great guitars, but their quality can get patchy now and then for no apparent reason. There's no point trying to deny it - the evidence has been shown. If their QC was up to snuff, none of these examples would have left the factory. Yet they did, and it is fair to bitch about it. If they were a lesser manufacturer we wouldn't because our expectations would be lower. So no, it isn't about being able to get better for a lower price, it is about giving Gibson a kick up the arse and warning them that reputations are not a meal ticket for life. They need to keep an eye on what they are supplying.

 

[Biddlin]

The occasional anecdotal internet thread does not prove anything about quality and consistency.

This injection of truth vaccine, though factually harmless, may cause some psychogenic distress. Nine out of ten doctors agree:"Live with it!"

I must be one lucky sod.

Moi aussi. I have eight of them and not a lemon in the bunch. Every new one I've taken out of the box since 2012 has been setup beautifully. My LPJ did have a slightly loose tuner bushing, but in lieu of sending it back, I tightened it myself, don't tell warranty repair.

 

[smitty_p]

I can't speak to what others say, especially if I am not there to witness what they claim to see. I have to take them at their word.

But, I can say, I've got three Gibsons (well, four if you include the husk I just bought) and I really have no complaints with any of them. I've played several more and haven't seen any issues that I feel affect the playability. I've seen some features I like better than others, but that's all just personal preference.

Mostly, my Gibson-bashing does not focus on the instruments. It focuses on what information we have about the management style of the leadership. If the information regarding Gibson's management style is true (and, admittedly, I do not know from first-hand experience if it is) then the people working there should actually be commended for turning out what they produce in spite of what they experience at work.

 

[DonP]

I also have three Gibsons

1961 Melody maker is perfect
Les Paul Traditional is perfect
Nighthawk is a bloody nightmare, and I may never get it playing properly

 

[Biddlin]

If their QC was up to snuff

Can you point me to a musical instrument manufacturer with a zero defect record?
People are fallible and always will be. By assigning the technical tasks to robots, we may eliminate most of the possible failures, but not all. Since the final inspection is done by humans, there will always be a few defective instruments that slip through. Send 'em back and get over it.

 

[DonP]

Can you point me to a musical instrument manufacturer with a zero defect record?
People are fallible and always will be. By assigning the technical tasks to robots, we may eliminate most of the possible failures, but not all. Since the final inspection is done by humans, there will always be a few defective instruments that slip through. Send 'em back and get over it.

It depends on the kind of defect. A scratch, surface blemish, cracked nut - fine. I will live with it or send it back if it is bad enough, and I understand how that happens. But a neck set so badly that even with the bridge right down on the deck it is unplayable, no that is not something I will put in the same class. That is something that has been clear at multiple points in the production line. It has been clear at neck installation, it has been clear at setup and it has been clear at final inspection. Stuff like that doesn't get out unless there is a policy of "ship the poop, and hope not too much comes back". If these were cheap guitars I would at least understand the mentality, but they aren't. They are premium price and we are entitled to expect better.

 

[eSGEe]

Preach it DonP

 

[DonP]

It's therapy. I give myself one topic for a rant per week

 

[Biddlin]

Stuff like that doesn't get out unless there is a policy of "ship the poop"

Have you ever seen a 10° neck angle on a new Gibson in the shop? I have not. I have seen bad setups, cracked nuts and tuner keys but real structural absurdity, never.

 

[eSGEe]

Non working pickups ....bad switches.....cracked nuts ....scratching pots......and horrible action yes......
but TBTH I dont go around measuring neck angle......though---- I might now

 

[Inspector #20]

Then, I'm happy for you! I really do understand the joy of sitting down with a guitar that just feels right.

BTW, for my own information...did your luthier shield the guitar? If so, what did he use?

No shileding and its quiet!!! LOL!!! Imagine that!!!

The "deal" was to pick up a completed husk, but he surprised me (in a good way) and threw on loaner hardware, so I picked up a completed guitar, ready to play. I plan on using the old school Faraday cages on this one...all my pickups/hardware are en route!!!

 

[Biddlin]

Anyone force you to buy any of those? Did you point them out to the shop owner so he could contact Gibson? I owned a mom and pop guitar shop in 1980 and did a lot of business with St. Louis Music. I did set up every guitar in the shop, but I di not do a white glove inspection on every effect box and ss amp, etc. If a customer pointed out a bad one, I sent it back for credit. on the sole occasion where one was returned after a sale, I took it back and refunded the money, tested the pedal and it worked fine, so I bought it. I'm very curious to meet some of these shop owners who just let the crap hang. Even the ty GC in Sacramento does better than that.

 

[DonP]

Have you ever seen a 10° neck angle on a new Gibson in the shop? I have not. I have seen bad setups, cracked nuts and tuner keys but real structural absurdity, never.

No, never. But I have seen the grounded bridge with a high action.