Okay. If Gibson does print a spec, and they don't meet their own printed spec, I suppose I can understand the sense of dissatisfaction.
Gibson Neck Angles:
- Thread starter Inspector #20
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Okay. If Gibson does print a spec, and they don't meet their own printed spec, I suppose I can understand the sense of dissatisfaction.
B
Biddlin
Guest
I have seen hundreds of Gibson electrics in my 51 years of playing and played over a dozen 2016-17 recently at GC. I have never seen one in the wild with anything approaching a 10° neck angle. I would like to see documentation of that. The production line models seem to have more consistent geometry to me than the Custom shop. I played two R8s, oneas shallow as 4° and the other as wide as perhaps 6°. (Both were very playable, I liked the slightly bigger angle, especially in the high register.) The cnc'ed, plekked production models were pretty much identical.
I don't condemn you. You seem to have a very nice guitar that meets the specs and features you want. So, I am truly happy for you! I know the hard road you have trod to get to this point!
But, I'm curious...why a replica? If you are really as displeased with Gibson as your posts indicate, why the free advertising for them? Whenever you play that guitar, the people who see and hear it will think it's a great guitar and Gibson will get the credit in their minds. You can't share the history of the guitar with everyone, unless you announce from stage that you're playing a replica!
Slash may play a replica...but he doesn't always play one. See the link below. In studio he usually uses the Derrig, but on stage he often plays the real thing. In GnR's hey-day, those who saw them and wanted to be like Slash got a Gibson Les Paul.
Slash's Guitars | Les Paul, Signature and B.C. Rich
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I'm the same way. As I said, my Washburn has a steeper angle, as does my Studio shell. I find the same thing...the larger angle actually helps in the higher register.
OP
Smitty, I think for me, I've wanted a Les Paul Custom for a long, long time...since I was 12...but, after two new Gibson's with problems, and genuine Les Paul Customs at Guitar Sinner with issues, I couldn't justify spending the money just to be forced to fix Gibson's problems.
Much like the Derrig replica, Gibson got the credit and that's fine. Sharp eyes will see that mine is a replica. That's fine too. I like the look of a custom and the replica allows me to include options not available on any LPC.
It's kind of like when I built an AC Cobra replica years ago from an AC Bristol car. I liked the vintage look with the modern features...
OP
I have an engineering background. I can't stand a specification not being followed. To me, thats complete disregard for quality and it causes me to doubt every other area of the project.
One of the reasons I am selling an otherwise brilliant Gibson SG is the funky neck angle.
OP
Biddlin, the 10 degree basket case les paul was sent back to Gibson by Sam Ash. Its one of three recently examined by my friend with extreme neck angles and tailpieces unscrew almost all the way....one of which was a 2017 HP
B
Biddlin
Guest
Then why are you bothering to libel them? This is a forum game I dislike intently. Of course you can take the most extreme example to make your point, but here we're talking about three out of what, ten thousand?
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I've been lucky with both my SG (bought new) & my LP (bought used). Both were bought online, though with a good return policy. I screw the tailpiece down & top wrap but both bridges are quite low to the body for a medium action. Ok, now to the point of posting, Epiphone build quality. When RVA posted his NGD affinity green strat thread, mention was made of Indonesian guitar manufacturing. That, & the fact that my Jackson pro soloist is Indonesian & a fine instrument, prompted me to read up on the guitar plants there (3 of them). I came across a forum dicussing them & mention was made of Epiphones made there. Someone posted saying that a few years back the build quality of Epiphones they were producing was surpassing their Gibson counterparts. The management were consequently told by Gibson to basically "dumb them down a bit" or they would loose the contract. Now I know it came from an internet forum & is only an individuals opinion, but knowing the quality of some epi's I've seen (I've never owned one) & the regard they are held in by members here & the forum many of us first became acquainted at who do own epi's, makes me wonder if there is any truth in it. Cheers
OP
I hardly doubt, when you read the volumes of similar experiences of first time (and repeat) Gibson customers, which appear not just in discussion gorums, but in Sweetwater, AMS and Zzounds reviews, that these issues are lmited to only 3 bad examples out of ten thousand.
Factually discussing/dissecting a clearly defective instrument isn't libel. Its Gibson's fault they let wrecks like that leave the factory.
Only the Gibson Faithful would defend such clearly sub-standard quality in a premium priced musical instrument, one considered to be professional grade.
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OP
The "10 guitar" was sold to a client and it came back to Sam Ash with many problems. My friend was asked to look at it by the resident Gibson warranty tech. That's when they really went over it and the neck angle was only one of many issues with it.
I am told that following that event, a number of new Gibson's were "proactively returned" for defects beyond the scope of the warranty technician's in-house capabilities.
You seem quite well acquainted with Gibson, yet amazingly blind to the consistency of problems contained in the many retailer reviews.
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OP
Smitty,
I am also quite sure that it is totally insane to be so determined to have a functional Les Paul Custom because of my first encounter with one at Buck Owens Studio. But, I figured if I could have all the flash of a LPC, but one that actually worked mechanically and sonically, and incorporate some custom features into an axe that I could earn money with, then why not do it....????
I am also quite sure that it is totally insane to be so determined to have a functional Les Paul Custom because of my first encounter with one at Buck Owens Studio. But, I figured if I could have all the flash of a LPC, but one that actually worked mechanically and sonically, and incorporate some custom features into an axe that I could earn money with, then why not do it....????
OP
Well, for me, the search for a useable Les Paul Custom is finally over. Now I can just get down to playing and enjoying things again.
I have a nice 2016 Gibson SG with full documentation available at a very reasonable price....
I have a nice 2016 Gibson SG with full documentation available at a very reasonable price....
OP
The people who built this fine instrument are sadly long gone...built when quality and attention to detail were important...
B
Biddlin
Guest
Not if they stand behind them and make the buyer whole. Perfection does not exist in the real world. Sorry.
Sweetwater customer reviews.
Gibson Les Paul Standard 2017 T - Bourbon Burst Reviews | Sweetwater
Gibson Les Paul Traditional 2016 T - Desert Burst
Gibson Les Paul Traditional 2017 T - Heritage Cherry Sunburst
Where is the outrage? Guess I missed it.
OP
You can pick and choose, but you are intentionally blind to anything that does not offer subscription to your point of view. The good and bad reviews are both out there. What's unreasonable is gentlemen, like yourself, that condone Gibson's hit and miss quality and even makes excuses for them as if you are employed by them in some capacity.
But that's ok because you are entitled to your opinion. I'm good with that.
You cannot ignore all the testements contained here, ESG and other forums where people have had consistent trouble with Gibson's products. Several lemons have been purchased by TTR Members.
I spent over $500 on my 2016 Gibson SG to fix it well enough I could use it to earn money wirh. Personally, and I am sure you will disagree, I find that unreasonable...not from a cost standpoint, but based on principle.
I have a better LPC now in a replica than a brand new 2016 LPC hanging on the wall of Guitar Sinner and I've let three guys play it back to back alongside the original to be sure it wasn't just my bias.
You know, that's sad, Man...but I'm glad I didn't drink the Gibson Kool Aid for the 3rd time...no reason to pay $4,799 for a professional grade instrument that needs $400-$500 in luthier refinements before it could be put to use.
Sad...very sad...
OP
I would, however, buy a Gibson husk, like Smitty did, if the basic construction was within tolerance. That's a smart purchase.