Gibson Neck Angles:

Inspector #20

Ambassador of Tone
Fallen Star
Country flag
Looking at Gibson's at Guitar Sinner and most, even the expensive models, have the tailpiece up almost all the way and the strings arr still contacting the bridge.

My 2016 Gibson SG took almost 1/4" of shims to get the strings off the bridge...and, if you know what you are looking for, you can see how extreme the neck angle is.

IMG_20170306_34459.jpg


Now look at the string angle on my Les Paul Custom Replica...

IMG_20170423_51440.jpg

The problem with Gibson quality is a lack of skill and/or lack of Quality Control.

An incompetent or unskilled Luthier cannot produce a quality guitar...
 
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1,Put the strings you use on and tune to pitch
2,Check the neck relief and adjust truss rod for how much relief you like .
3,Adjust bridge height to get the string height or action how you like or no buzzing.i use a medium action height i guess youd call it.
4,once you fiddle around with these items then adjust your tailpiece so strings are off the bridge.
5,You can also raise tailpiece to achieve the same break angle as headstock or how the strings feel to ya.Ya need to make sure the neck relief,string height you like with the bridge and no buzzing are in place then adjust tailpiece.
 
The more neck angle ya got the higher everything behind it gonna be.The less angle the lower everything behind it gonna be.But you can also have not enough neck angle to.
 
You know Robert being i worked in a production mill type setting for 33 years and finally saying fook this poop because of all the assinine and stupid rules and greed that goes on the folks at Gibson im sure are pissed off at all this new way of doing things and maybe Henry himself and just put um out the door attitude from management your gonna get alot of shite guitars with the good ones.Now them folks overseas makin guitars will either be caned or hung or somethin if they make mistakes so there geetars are alot more closer to specs.
 
You know Robert being i worked in a production mill type setting for 33 years and finally saying fook this poop because of all the assinine and stupid rules and greed that goes on the folks at Gibson im sure are pissed off at all this new way of doing things and maybe Henry himself and just put um out the door attitude from management your gonna get alot of shite guitars with the good ones.Now them folks overseas makin guitars will either be caned or hung or somethin if they make mistakes so there geetars are alot more closer to specs.

Agreed....it's a problem
 
Maybe the overseas folks just take more pride in there work.hell i dont know im just rambling on on a Sunday morning :)

I think, with Epiphones in particular, their more consistent quality is due to more CNC operations and less drunk/pissed off/unskilled laborers...
 
+1 on all of that. Most Gibson guitars have neck angle between 3 1/2 and 5 degrees.
Most Gibson guitars are completely adjustable so the player can make it his own.
That's the majority of cases. Most Gibson owners just play their guitars, and don't
ever take them apart or have any problems. Thousands of Gibson owners are in this category.
Gibson guitar owners never need to shield their guitars, because Gibson Humbucking pickups
are quiet (in the majority of cases).

Gibson ought to know better than to ship instruments that have any flaws to members of this
forum, or ETSG, or MLP. They ought to have someone in QC that makes sure that instruments that go to members of this forum are perfect in every way. Think of how much bad mouthing they have received from several of our members: Members who received a guitar with a pickup that wouldn't work, or who received a guitar whose pickups didn't sound like they did forty years ago, or who received a guitar with absolutely nothing right, and which had to be completely rebuilt in order to make any music.

That is nuts. Gibson has received way more bashing from our members than they need.
And it's the kind of articulate and specific bashing that really hurts a company.
Think of how many lurkers are out there reading all this, and buying Epiphones and PRS
and Fender and Gretsch, and Rickenbacker instead of Gibsons, because of all the negative
comments that pop up on a google search, like snipers in a spider hole.

Gibson ought to pay ME to be their liaison, and read these boards and make sure that
whatever guitar gets ordered by our members gets inspected twice and corrected before
it goes out. I read some post by a member who ordered a guitar from Sweetwater (one of my A-list emporia) and got one that wasn't playable. I mean WTF! Sweet water boasts in print that they inspect and set up each guitar they ship, using that as a sales attraction
...which it is. I would hold them to it, because it's a great concept IMHO.

So Sweetwater ought to pay ME too, because they don't need any negative commentary on these boards. Those posts last too long, and pop up too readily if people just search something like "Gibson QC" ...all those negative comments will be there for years, poisoning the minds of prospective Gibson customers. If they just paid me a reasonable amount of money (by Washington standards) I would set them straight, and make sure that I received all the guitars FIRST for testing and evaluation. I would make sure that the instruments actually work... and I live far enough from my neighbors that I could turn them up and make sure they function at band volume. I would be worth all the good money they heaped on me.

And I'd have a lot of fun with all the virgin guitars, Like the old Marquis, getting to check out
all the village girls before they got married (which turns out to be about as likely as me getting to have my way with all YOUR new guitars)... Ye aulde Droits de Segnieur seems now to be a myth about a really stupid idea.
 
+1 on all of that. Most Gibson guitars have neck angle between 3 1/2 and 5 degrees.
Most Gibson guitars are completely adjustable so the player can make it his own.
That's the majority of cases. Most Gibson owners just play their guitars, and don't
ever take them apart or have any problems. Thousands of Gibson owners are in this category.
Gibson guitar owners never need to shield their guitars, because Gibson Humbucking pickups
are quiet (in the majority of cases).

Gibson ought to know better than to ship instruments that have any flaws to members of this
forum, or ETSG, or MLP. They ought to have someone in QC that makes sure that instruments that go to members of this forum are perfect in every way. Think of how much bad mouthing they have received from several of our members: Members who received a guitar with a pickup that wouldn't work, or who received a guitar whose pickups didn't sound like they did forty years ago, or who received a guitar with absolutely nothing right, and which had to be completely rebuilt in order to make any music.

That is nuts. Gibson has received way more bashing from our members than they need.
And it's the kind of articulate and specific bashing that really hurts a company.
Think of how many lurkers are out there reading all this, and buying Epiphones and PRS
and Fender and Gretsch, and Rickenbacker instead of Gibsons, because of all the negative
comments that pop up on a google search, like snipers in a spider hole.

Gibson ought to pay ME to be their liaison, and read these boards and make sure that
whatever guitar gets ordered by our members gets inspected twice and corrected before
it goes out. I read some post by a member who ordered a guitar from Sweetwater (one of my A-list emporia) and got one that wasn't playable. I mean WTF! Sweet water boasts in print that they inspect and set up each guitar they ship, using that as a sales attraction
...which it is. I would hold them to it, because it's a great concept IMHO.

So Sweetwater ought to pay ME too, because they don't need any negative commentary on these boards. Those posts last too long, and pop up too readily if people just search something like "Gibson QC" ...all those negative comments will be there for years, poisoning the minds of prospective Gibson customers. If they just paid me a reasonable amount of money (by Washington standards) I would set them straight, and make sure that I received all the guitars FIRST for testing and evaluation. I would make sure that the instruments actually work... and I live far enough from my neighbors that I could turn them up and make sure they function at band volume. I would be worth all the good money they heaped on me.

And I'd have a lot of fun with all the virgin guitars, Like the old Marquis, getting to check out
all the village girls before they got married (which turns out to be about as likely as me getting to have my way with all YOUR new guitars)... Ye aulde Droits de Segnieur seems now to be a myth about a really stupid idea.

Excellent post, Colonel...

True, I am quite sure that most Gibson customers are likely not as tone/signal biased as me, which gives me a super critical ear to say the least. I realize I am a member of the "immoral Minority" of Gibson owners and I am OK with that. I've never been popoular, nor have I wanted to be.

For me, wanting a Black & Gold Les Paul Custom all began when I saw the first one at Buck Owen's Studio in Bakersfield in 1976. Now, at long last, with a hand built replica, I have a guitar that pays homage to that first LPC, yet has correct neck angle, a flatter fretboard radius, correct neck angle, and exchanges the garish, overly-large Gibson split diamond, for the cleaner, smaller and classier Epiphone style split diamond.

I have had several people already condemn me for commissioning a Gibson replica...Ironically, it's the same people who love Guns N Roses songs played on a Kris Derrig Gibson replica. My decision to go this route was to avoid buying another Gibson ( I bought two Gibson's brand new and owned two vintage models over the years) and have to immediately either begin working on them, or just accept all the issues.

The sad part of this is, I went to Guitar Sinner with my Black Amex card and my wife gave me the "green light" to buy the 2016 Gibson Les Paul Custom they had on the top shelf, as it was recently marked down from $4,799.00 to $3,499.00. After playing it, and looking at the tailpiece height, strings leaving marks on the bridge, high 15th and 17th frets, I just walked away.

Maybe Gibson will get it together again????
 
I do like Gibsons myself.

I do too. It was growing up in and around the music industry that got me interested in Gibson's...even if they didn't magically make me a better guitarist, as we all hoped as kids... :-)

I would buy a genuine Les Paul Custom if I didn't have to rebuild it...
 
My 2007 Les Paul Custom and the 2007 Les Paul Studio husk I just got have rather different neck angles. The Custom is shallower. But, I would not necessarily call that bad QC without more information. It is possible that the Customs and the Studios of that year were purposely built with different angles. I don't know that to be a fact. But, it is a thought that comes to mind. Honestly, I prefer the steeper angle of my Studio. It looks pretty similar to the angle on my Washburn, which I like. Anyway, I don't really think one angle is "correct" and the other "incorrect." They're just different.

The Studio also has a slightly thinner neck. It was obviously built a little differently from my Custom. Again, I don't see that as bad QC, just differences between models. I'm not a Gibson apologist. I've delivered my share of negative Gibson commentary over the years. But, just like a car maker may shift things around from model variant to model variant, I rather imagine Gibson may do the same. I don't really expect Gibson to remain completely static in how they build a guitar. It's only reasonable to expect them to try different things.
 
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I have been a Gibson fan my whole damn life. THE Les Paul to me is the PINNACLE of guitar perfection.........since I was a PRE-TEEN watching Ace Frehley SMOKE his on stage.........

I am not BASHING all Gibsons.....I played a 2013 Les Paul Jr. last weekend I LOVED it was awesome---excellent and great---even with e-tune and zero nut---and I would have THAT one in a heart beat ...

I am (for the record) stating LOUDLY that AS THE PINNACLE GOLD STANDARD of AMERICAN large Volume guitar makers...(which is HOW Gibson present THEMSELVES) ...they are falling woefully short of late with what they are spitting out and hanging up for sale/profit at Guitar Sinner and Sam Ash etc.

When the impostors are BETTER than the MASTER --- the master needs to know----and adjust---wouldnt you say?
If the ONLY words found in feedback and forums are that GIBSON IS PERFECT why would they fix anything????------ you think the removal and banishment of the Etune systems was because the forums where full of people saying they LOVED the e-tune........or the contrary?

PErhaps the complaints of neck angles being wrong and or new guitars NOT intonating or being shipped with fret boards separating from the neck or NON WORKING pickups..... MIGHT get the Q.C. department to pay better attention ....
OR make certain retailers aren't shipping "B" stock or duds hoping the customer doesnt know and keeps it......

Just because it says Gibson on the headstock I do not take for Gospel that it is a good guitar......and just because it says Epiphone or Cozart or Douglas or Agile on the headstock I do not assume its a crap pile of wood either.
 
So, I have a couple of neck angle questions:

What is a "correct" neck angle, and which guitar has it?
 
So, I have a couple of neck angle questions:

What is a "correct" neck angle, and which guitar has it?

Gibson printed specification for the neck angle is 5° +/- 0°, 0', 15 seconds. Alex tells me he routinely sees 10° on Gibson's...which raises the tailpiece
 
I have been a Gibson fan my whole damn life. THE Les Paul to me is the PINNACLE of guitar perfection.........since I was a PRE-TEEN watching Ace Frehley SMOKE his on stage.........

I am not BASHING all Gibsons.....I played a 2013 Les Paul Jr. last weekend I LOVED it was awesome---excellent and great---even with e-tune and zero nut---and I would have THAT one in a heart beat ...

I am (for the record) stating LOUDLY that AS THE PINNACLE GOLD STANDARD of AMERICAN large Volume guitar makers...(which is HOW Gibson present THEMSELVES) ...they are falling woefully short of late with what they are spitting out and hanging up for sale/profit at Guitar Sinner and Sam Ash etc.

When the impostors are BETTER than the MASTER --- the master needs to know----and adjust---wouldnt you say?
If the ONLY words found in feedback and forums are that GIBSON IS PERFECT why would they fix anything????------ you think the removal and banishment of the Etune systems was because the forums where full of people saying they LOVED the e-tune........or the contrary?

PErhaps the complaints of neck angles being wrong and or new guitars NOT intonating or being shipped with fret boards separating from the neck or NON WORKING pickups..... MIGHT get the Q.C. department to pay better attention ....
OR make certain retailers aren't shipping "B" stock or duds hoping the customer doesnt know and keeps it......

Just because it says Gibson on the headstock I do not take for Gospel that it is a good guitar......and just because it says Epiphone or Cozart or Douglas or Agile on the headstock I do not assume its a crap pile of wood either.

Exactly....
 
The BEST part of all is how Slash rocked the world on a Gibson REPLICA. Why would anyone build a replica if you could get a good genuine Les Paul??? There is something to be said in the building of the Kris Derrig replica and I believe it is simply a skilled Luthier can build a better instrument than Gibson's assembly line minions. I have seen Gibson anomalies since the 1980's.

Gibson poop a brick when they approached Slash about a signature model and discovered his guitar was a FAKE. The guitar the created the most iconic tones of the 1980's was a FAKE. They did their best to conceal this fact. Gibson has never publically acknowledged the Derrig Les Paul Replica...

The replica heard around the world...and it also did not have Gibson pickups.

Poor Corksniffers... :)



Saul Hudson with Replica.jpg
 
The brilliant Les Paul Replica, serial number 9 0607, Built by Kris Derrig in Southern California between May & June 1986. Slash had this guitar since December 22, 1986. Alan Niven borrowed the replica from Jim Foote of MusicWorks in Redondo Beach, where Derrig was working. Niven would state in an interview, "Slash tried many les Pauls that had problems or just didn't sound good." Slash played this guitar for the first time during the Appetite for Destruction studio sessions (1987) and subsequent tour (including the Ritz in NY 02/02/1988.

Now, did you know that Slash has a second les Paul Replica???

According to Niven, it was around May or June 1987 that Slash acquired his other Les Paul replica built by "Max" (Peter Baranet) and that would have been perhaps as long as a few months after Slash finished recording his AFD guitar parts.

Now, having said that, did you know that Derrig built many Gibson replicas for people...how many famous Gibson's actually came off Derrig's bench???

Here are the photos of the actual Derrig Replica, serial number 9 0607:

Derrig Les Paul 9 0607 - 4.jpg

Derrig Les Paul 9 0607 - 5.jpg

Derrig Les Paul 9 0607 - 2.jpg

Derrig Les Paul 9 0607 - 3.jpg

Derrig Les Paul 9 0607 - 6.jpg


Hmmmmmm....No Gibson pickups??? I wonder why??? :)
 
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