Gibson is Flexing New Muscle
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Metal89
Ambassador of Orchestral Brewtality
We could always decide to dig in to the trademark defending habits of.....KISS....for example.
They make Gibson look like angels.
You’re not kidding there, Gene Simmons once sent King Diamond a cease and desist over makeup...
.....and it’s up to the holder of said “something” to club......erm.....defend their ...something...
I like Gibson, as far as the tone and styling of the Les Paul is concerned. Of course, as a kid, everyone whom I idolized was a Gibson player, and the Gibson was the guitar of kid's dreams.
While I love my genuine Gibson Les Paul, my Les Paul replica has far better tuning stability- especially outdoors in direct sunlight - than my original Gibson, at a fraction of the cost.
Probably why a then-penniless Slash embraced the Kris Derrig replica....
While I love my genuine Gibson Les Paul, my Les Paul replica has far better tuning stability- especially outdoors in direct sunlight - than my original Gibson, at a fraction of the cost.
Probably why a then-penniless Slash embraced the Kris Derrig replica....
BlackSG91
Ambassador of Anarchy
I'm a proud owner of two black Gibson guitars...an SG and an LP. I would NOT buy a new one until something changes. I think JC and Mark Agnasty have worn out their welcome in the guitar world. It's time for an uprising & a revolution and new leadership by the man himself.
;>)/
;>)/
Metal89
Ambassador of Orchestral Brewtality
“YOU CAN TAKE OUR DEAN’S, BUT YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR MONEY!!”I'm a proud owner of two black Gibson guitars...an SG and an LP. I would NOT buy a new one until something changes. I think JC and Mark Agnasty have worn out their welcome in the guitar world. It's time for an uprising & a revolution and new leadership by the man himself.
;>)/
Vox AC30
Well-Known Member
When investment firms have a controlling say or any other Wall Street Vultures or trust funds, have a say in Gibson of any manner well, their mantra is one thing, make a killing then break up the company making even more $$$$ , as the workers loose their retirements benefits to the share holders! It's not about quality it's about meeting stock analysts expectations $$$$$$ each quarter or the stock goes down and all the suits loose $$$ on their stock options. Oh, as 67 mentioned, I also use Jim Rolph pickups too, usually PAF's, but if not, Jim Rolphs , since about the early 80's. Jim Rolph has been making pickups since 1959 … thou sometimes it can be hit or miss it's usually hit … And I have also purchased many gibson's with neck twists … too many to mention which caused me to NOT buy any newer ones in lieu of the older ones , at least I stood a chance of not having to deal with QC BS issues. The last one ended in fistacuffs with the store owner and 3 of his biggest employees. They stood no chance due to a thumb and forefinger lock where they immediately dropped down to one knee 2 @ at a time. So I took the high road ?, and had the new frets ripped out and the F board leveled out and frets replaced, nut properly made and pleked to perfection! The dealer didn't want to be bothered and neither did Gibson … $450 more to straighten it out. BTW Custom shop …. Historic VOS. The minute he opened the case I could see the twist in the Neck . Once on the plek machine all the faults were apparent, and, easy to see on the computer after the plek made it's first neck pass, I should say 6 passes, one for each string! $35 to put it on the plek to analyze!. I was heartbroken and disgruntled with that whole situation and how the store and Gibson just wanted to pass the issues on to me! Oh Jees now I'm upset, breath deep , and step back and relax ….... Ah that's better!
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
I can also attest to the treatment of the employees--I met a fella in Alabama who-- was an EX Gibson employee--had worked for them 20 years --- was part of a "downsizing" and was "lucky" to have been ALLOWED to be labeled Gibsons "registered repair tech" in South Alabama
WHen I recieved my BRAND NEW from sweetwater Gibson SG several years back---(A 60s Tribute model) the neck pickup didnt work --dead--no sound---
Called Sweetwater--- they said "its under warranty call Gibson"
Called Gibson they said (and I quote) -- "you can return it"
I DONT WANT TO RETURN it I like it -- I WANT IT TO WORK --gave me the phone numbr of their "Gibson Repair Tech" --
I call set up a time to bring the guitar -- and get the address---- which turned out to be a SHED in the back yard of a very RURAL area of S. Al. ---uhm THIS is GIBSONS Tech ??
Guy took it in the "shop" --- opened the back saying "lets see what we got -- probably a bad solder joint--------"
"OH, -- thats a PC board -- those a$$holes.... well I Cant fix it -- dont even have tools to diagnose it" --
AFTER an hour or so of conversation about how the compnay was failing-- how the PC boards sucked -- how they screwed over most the people that left -- HIS "benefit" after many years as an employee (longer story than I care to type) was the "preferred Tech in the south half of Alabama position" -- which paid--- whatever he could make off repairs--
SO-- he said "sorry-- It might be the pick up connection -- you could take my Tech number and call Gibson see if they will send you a pickup -- you can put it in save you another 40 minute drive here......"
I did JUST that
Gibson DID send the pup un-enthusiastically--I installed it myself and it worked fine.
THen I clipped the STUPID little plastic connector off the original pup and tested the original pup-- worked fine--sold it on reverb for 85.00
-- PROFIT--
The guitar itself was nice and I liked it-- but after 2 decades of NOT owning a Gibosn and a year of FLIPPING low end gear to get the money to FINALLY get another Gibson SG--
And then go through that whole B.S. game --- I traded it off for a LOVELY VOX Virage --which I should have kept because now they are rare and sought after and valued at double what the SG 60's tribute currently is
--- now -- TBTF -- my PURCHASED new Gibson LEs Paul 100 JR --- is wonderful-- (though the robotuners eventually
e the bed) the guitar is still one of my all time faves--)
so Im 50/50 w/ new Gibbos--(actually the only 2 new Ive purchased...ever) --- those arent good odds....
FOr the BULLY GUITAR CO llc,pdq,Ltd. Co, Inc. --who claim to be the ICONIC US GUITAR MFCT> I guess if your "ICON" is ---we get it right ---occasionally-- then WELL DONE
WHen I recieved my BRAND NEW from sweetwater Gibson SG several years back---(A 60s Tribute model) the neck pickup didnt work --dead--no sound---
Called Sweetwater--- they said "its under warranty call Gibson"
Called Gibson they said (and I quote) -- "you can return it"
I DONT WANT TO RETURN it I like it -- I WANT IT TO WORK --gave me the phone numbr of their "Gibson Repair Tech" --
I call set up a time to bring the guitar -- and get the address---- which turned out to be a SHED in the back yard of a very RURAL area of S. Al. ---uhm THIS is GIBSONS Tech ??
Guy took it in the "shop" --- opened the back saying "lets see what we got -- probably a bad solder joint--------"
"OH, -- thats a PC board -- those a$$holes.... well I Cant fix it -- dont even have tools to diagnose it" --
AFTER an hour or so of conversation about how the compnay was failing-- how the PC boards sucked -- how they screwed over most the people that left -- HIS "benefit" after many years as an employee (longer story than I care to type) was the "preferred Tech in the south half of Alabama position" -- which paid--- whatever he could make off repairs--
SO-- he said "sorry-- It might be the pick up connection -- you could take my Tech number and call Gibson see if they will send you a pickup -- you can put it in save you another 40 minute drive here......"
I did JUST that
Gibson DID send the pup un-enthusiastically--I installed it myself and it worked fine.
THen I clipped the STUPID little plastic connector off the original pup and tested the original pup-- worked fine--sold it on reverb for 85.00
-- PROFIT--The guitar itself was nice and I liked it-- but after 2 decades of NOT owning a Gibosn and a year of FLIPPING low end gear to get the money to FINALLY get another Gibson SG--
And then go through that whole B.S. game --- I traded it off for a LOVELY VOX Virage --which I should have kept because now they are rare and sought after and valued at double what the SG 60's tribute currently is
--- now -- TBTF -- my PURCHASED new Gibson LEs Paul 100 JR --- is wonderful-- (though the robotuners eventually
e the bed) the guitar is still one of my all time faves--)so Im 50/50 w/ new Gibbos--(actually the only 2 new Ive purchased...ever) --- those arent good odds....
FOr the BULLY GUITAR CO llc,pdq,Ltd. Co, Inc. --who claim to be the ICONIC US GUITAR MFCT> I guess if your "ICON" is ---we get it right ---occasionally-- then WELL DONE
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eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
Ill add--- Ive been to the Dean factory -- I ve watched a guitar start life in their CNC machine-- Ive seen the woods used--
AND I have played and owned many of the end products---I have a DEAN zebra pickup at present that is one of my favorite pickups -- WOUND RIGHT HERE IN TAMPA FL> -- and it was under 70.00 BRAND SPANKING NEW
Ive dealt with their customer service via both phone and email -- and they have ALWAYS been very polite and helpfull and friendly -- Gibsons --- depends on who you get and what your asking
Questions and back history on OLD stuff -- they are great --- helpo on new gear-- -not so much
Id have to say of the 2 companies---if I were a pro-- looking to PROMOTE a brand Id be signing contracts with Dean not Gibbo---
ANd as far as NEW guitars go--- I would certainly buy a Dean before I would buy a new Gibson --
AND I have played and owned many of the end products---I have a DEAN zebra pickup at present that is one of my favorite pickups -- WOUND RIGHT HERE IN TAMPA FL> -- and it was under 70.00 BRAND SPANKING NEW
Ive dealt with their customer service via both phone and email -- and they have ALWAYS been very polite and helpfull and friendly -- Gibsons --- depends on who you get and what your asking
Questions and back history on OLD stuff -- they are great --- helpo on new gear-- -not so much
Id have to say of the 2 companies---if I were a pro-- looking to PROMOTE a brand Id be signing contracts with Dean not Gibbo---
ANd as far as NEW guitars go--- I would certainly buy a Dean before I would buy a new Gibson --
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
also for continued clarity --
I have a
62 Eb bass
70 Les Paul Recording
80 something G3 bass
80 Something Sonex 180 Deluxe
00's?? Gibson BLUESHAWK
Les Paul Jr 100 2015
Sg Special Min Hums--2017
USA MADE (Kalamazoo) Epi Spirit DC Jr '82 I believe
08 Epi Thunderbird
08 Epi Silverburst custom
at present -- and have owned other Gibbos and a bazillion Epiphones-Baldwins-Maestros etc.
So -- Im not just "lipping off" with no prior knowledge ---
just in case some may have misconstrued my experience with the "G" company --now known as BULLY GUITARS LTD.INC.LLC.M.D.VIPetc.
I have a
62 Eb bass
70 Les Paul Recording
80 something G3 bass
80 Something Sonex 180 Deluxe
00's?? Gibson BLUESHAWK
Les Paul Jr 100 2015
Sg Special Min Hums--2017
USA MADE (Kalamazoo) Epi Spirit DC Jr '82 I believe
08 Epi Thunderbird
08 Epi Silverburst custom
at present -- and have owned other Gibbos and a bazillion Epiphones-Baldwins-Maestros etc.
So -- Im not just "lipping off" with no prior knowledge ---
just in case some may have misconstrued my experience with the "G" company --now known as BULLY GUITARS LTD.INC.LLC.M.D.VIPetc.
I've been reading a few articles and watching a lot of videos about this.
I sort of see both sides, but it strikes me as a bit of overreach by Gibson, considering Dean has had some of these styles in their lineup for four decades.
There are seven complaints Gibson has against Dean: the shapes of the Flying V, Explorer, ES and SG guitars, its “dove wing” headstock plus its Hummingbird and Moderne trademarks.
My personal sense?
Dean may lose a couple of these challenges, particularly the infringement on the Hummingbird. As I understand it, Dean uses a hummingbird in one its acoustic guitars.
The body shapes question leans more against Gibson. Fender lost a similar legal battle a few years ago and Gibson lost that battle against PRS.
The Moderne question is a little iffy, as I believe this pits Dean's split V headstock versus the Moderne offset V headstock.
Personally, I think the "dovewing" headstock question is stupid.
This the picture @eSGEe posted earlier. On the left is Dean's Dovewing. On the right is Gibson's open book.
However, Gibson has pushed for a jury decision. So, this will not be decided by judges. It will be decided potentially by non-guitarists.
I suspect Gibson is already losing in the court of public opinion.
What may work in Dean's favor is that Gibson has not previously pursued action against Dean, in spite of Dean having had some of these products on the market for decades.
I sort of see both sides, but it strikes me as a bit of overreach by Gibson, considering Dean has had some of these styles in their lineup for four decades.
There are seven complaints Gibson has against Dean: the shapes of the Flying V, Explorer, ES and SG guitars, its “dove wing” headstock plus its Hummingbird and Moderne trademarks.
My personal sense?
Dean may lose a couple of these challenges, particularly the infringement on the Hummingbird. As I understand it, Dean uses a hummingbird in one its acoustic guitars.
The body shapes question leans more against Gibson. Fender lost a similar legal battle a few years ago and Gibson lost that battle against PRS.
The Moderne question is a little iffy, as I believe this pits Dean's split V headstock versus the Moderne offset V headstock.
Personally, I think the "dovewing" headstock question is stupid.
This the picture @eSGEe posted earlier. On the left is Dean's Dovewing. On the right is Gibson's open book.
However, Gibson has pushed for a jury decision. So, this will not be decided by judges. It will be decided potentially by non-guitarists.
I suspect Gibson is already losing in the court of public opinion.
What may work in Dean's favor is that Gibson has not previously pursued action against Dean, in spite of Dean having had some of these products on the market for decades.
I looked very deeply into this when I decided to build my own guitars.
The issue which will likely cost Gibson their suit - much like Fender - is the commonplace use of these guitar shapes in things such as toys, party favors, cartoons, pins, and other areas of non-musical use.
In the case with Fender, it was ruled that the shape of the Stratocaster and Telecaster was so widely used in a non-musical fashion - and for so many years - that the shape was now considered to be "a generic guitar shape" in terms of widespread use of those shapes in such a vast array of products and advertisements.
As far as the headstock is concerned - and I looked deeply into this when designing my own headstock - which I successfully trademarked, a single change in singularity or shape is sufficient to constitute a separate design. A more dramatic example would be Echopark's Echocaster. Clearly a Fender influenced design, but not a copy be definition.
A good example are the "Strat-esque" headstocks on the Mitchell TD-400, which are clearly copies of Fender, but two distinct angles are changed. Even a slight alteration would create a separate "design" by definition.
If you really want a shock, compare the Dean flying dove to the nearly identical Mitchell MD-100!
When I was building the Von Herndon double neck, I spent a lot of time on the phone with Gibson custom to get copies of plans, measurements and other archival details. I asked my contact how he thought Gibson corporate would react to me building my own "copy" of an EDS-1275 and I was given the contact information for their patent attorney.
I phoned him and posed my question about my double neck "replica" including the use of the open book headstock. He answered me immediately, "Unless you are building them for the purpose of resale, it's not an issue."
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bea
AmBASSador of the F Clef
... is a V using the headstock design of Gibson's original Explorer patent.
But these patents are from 1958. So protection should have vanished for decades.
And Gibson is pretty late in claiming their copyrights...
regarding headstock: take Gibsons open book design. Leave off the central "cut" and continue the curvature to a central "dome". Then You'll end up with e *very* common headstock shape, especially common amongst lots of low cost instruments. And You could decorate it "intelligently" and trigger the impression of Gibson's open book.
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eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
Gibsons HUMINGBIRD acoustic (the pick guard is the ONLY thing making it a humingbird)
LUNA Guitars -- owned by DEAN--- Humingbird Acoustic
Really Gibson? ---- so your "locking down" a whole species of BIRD--- that NO ONE ELSE ON THE PLANET can put on a guitar in ANY FRIGGIN WAY shape or form ???
They also have a Bear acoustic---Hey BEar Paints--- get a lawsuit going----
a Dragon Fly a WOlf ---a LOTUS --(OH HELL HERE COME THE FLOWER PEOPLE) -- a Phoenix a Mustang (jump on board FORD -- we know you want to sue to !!!)
its stupid the guitars are NOT EVEN CLOSE ---- Gibson are being collective Penial implant devices in a donkeys arse period
Call a spade a spade folks --- $$$$ grab 110%
THey arent suing outside the US--- they arent suing SAMICK --- they make 1.3 MILLION + gutiars a YEAR --SPANKING Gibson 100 times over or more---
Oh -- Gibson tried ??? And SAMICK said go "F" yourself---- yeah --- I can see that
WHY not ask ol Hartley PEavey WHY he started making guitars in the first place --- because GIBSON -- and FENDER --- stiff armed the guitar shop owners and said "if you carry PEAVEY AMPS we are NOT allowing you to carry Gibson or Fender guitars) --- wow --- BULLY GUITAR CO LTD.INC>ORG>ETC> LLC......
been playing that game for Decades they have
funny HARTLEY was the first to CNC manufacture----- wonder why he didnt sue when Fender and Gibson STOLE that idea-----
MAYBE Gibson is trying to make up for the $$ it stands to lose on the TRONICALs lawsuit????
www.guitarworld.com
LUNA Guitars -- owned by DEAN--- Humingbird Acoustic
Really Gibson? ---- so your "locking down" a whole species of BIRD--- that NO ONE ELSE ON THE PLANET can put on a guitar in ANY FRIGGIN WAY shape or form ???
They also have a Bear acoustic---Hey BEar Paints--- get a lawsuit going----
a Dragon Fly a WOlf ---a LOTUS --(OH HELL HERE COME THE FLOWER PEOPLE) -- a Phoenix a Mustang (jump on board FORD -- we know you want to sue to !!!)
its stupid the guitars are NOT EVEN CLOSE ---- Gibson are being collective Penial implant devices in a donkeys arse period
Call a spade a spade folks --- $$$$ grab 110%
THey arent suing outside the US--- they arent suing SAMICK --- they make 1.3 MILLION + gutiars a YEAR --SPANKING Gibson 100 times over or more---
Oh -- Gibson tried ??? And SAMICK said go "F" yourself---- yeah --- I can see that
WHY not ask ol Hartley PEavey WHY he started making guitars in the first place --- because GIBSON -- and FENDER --- stiff armed the guitar shop owners and said "if you carry PEAVEY AMPS we are NOT allowing you to carry Gibson or Fender guitars) --- wow --- BULLY GUITAR CO LTD.INC>ORG>ETC> LLC......
been playing that game for Decades they have
funny HARTLEY was the first to CNC manufacture----- wonder why he didnt sue when Fender and Gibson STOLE that idea-----
MAYBE Gibson is trying to make up for the $$ it stands to lose on the TRONICALs lawsuit????
Tronical Sues Gibson for $50 Million
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