Some don't like the Les Paul switch position, either.
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Gibson fanboy when asked if he'd play a strat
- Thread starter Sérgio
- Start date
Some don't like the Les Paul switch position, either.
BlackSG91
Ambassador of Anarchy
I love my Gibson SG Special but I must admit that I love Stratocasters a lot since I have about 9 of them...mostly Squiers, a 1996 MIM Fender Strat and my 1998 Fender American Standard Stratocaster below which I think is flawless and plays extremely well. I've bonded with this guitar instantly when I bought it in a pawn shop back in 2005 for a reasonable price of $1,100 including a Fender hard-shell case. It's in very good condition for being a 20 year old guitar.
;>)/
;>)/
Another thing that only needs some adaptation... Some use the middle pickup instead of rolling down a tone knob for the bridge, others buy strats with a Delta tone system (or rewire them like that), i.e. they do have a tone knob for the bridge
Delta Tone!
That’s it. I couldn’t remember the name of the circuit.
Thanks, Sergio.
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I played strat style guitars & strats "exclusively" for more than a couple decades before buying 1st an SG & then Les Paul's & becoming a Gibson fanboy. I still keep a strat, as RVA said, sometimes only a strat will do, & nothing does strat like a strat. I'll never have one without the delta tone system since trying it. The volume pot & switch position aren't flaws, they're put where they are for good reason, you just have to accustom to their positioning. As to which guitar type feels most comfortable to me I think I'm the opposite of convention, I find the Les Paul most comfortable, followed by SG. Where as a strat used to feel like home, it (& Jackson soloist) now feel slightly foreign to me. Cheers
Truss_rod
Ambassador of Picks and Sticks
That has beautiful written all over it....NICE
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
It plays and sounds so great! I absolutely LOVE it! It's my #1 for sure...
BlackSG91
Ambassador of Anarchy
It sure is a real nice guitar and it's a white Strat! The back of the neck looks georgeous with the flamed-maple and I like the abalone inlays which look classy. But your guitar looks a little sad because you have no toggle switch in your hole and no whammy bar. You better get to that issue quickly before your guitar gently weeps.
;>)/
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If the Stratocaster in question has a 24.75" scale, 58 Gibson Les Paul neck profile and humbuckers, I'm in.....
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
Yes, but I don’t feel like I should have to mod a guitar right out of the box to do something that should be considered essential to an electric guitar.
The best solution to the three knob layout I have found is on G&L’s: master volume, master treble, master bass
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Here are my thoughts I posted in the other forum/thread to which Sergio is referring.
To set the context, my comments weren’t posted as a rebuttal or argument. I did not feel things were antagonistic or confrontational toward me on the other poster’s part, either. The poster merely posted some things he felt were design flaws. In fact, I see his point in some cases.
Specifically, he cited the following:
He felt it was a flaw for Fender to only offer a 3-Way switch in Strats and not change to a 5-way until about 20 years later.
He felt it is a flaw that the bridge pickup has no tone control.
He cited how the volume knob and switch get in the way of strumming.
He felt it is a flaw that the neck and bridge pickups cannot both be selected at the same time.
He felt the vibrato could not be kept in tune unless it is decked.
He claimed the Trem system “eats” nuts.
He noted how the bridge digs into your hand.
He believed the output jack cannot be used with a 90 plug.
Sooo....here’s what I said...
“Lots of interesting observations. No hate from me. I don't believe in getting mad at someone over something like preferences in guitars! Life's too short and there's too much music to enjoy.
But, I will offer a few thoughts...
First, I think it's worth noting that Leo Fender did not develop the Stratocaster in a vacuum. Some artists of the day had input into it's design, so it is a bit of a collaborative effort with musicians. I think some perceived design "flaws" from our vantage point of historical hind-sight are more a matter of features and capabilities that were simply not anticipated by Fender or the contributing artists.
Second, I draw a distinction between design "flaws" and design "progression". A flaw would be some problem that prevented the device from performing its intended function. A progression would be some new capability or feature.
So, let me dive in...
1. The 3-way switch.
To me, this is design progression. The original 3-way performed it's desired function. However, the 5-way was developed to accommodate the habits of some to use the "in-between" position for added "quack". You have a point about it taking 20 years to use the 5-way switch, though. Incidentally, not all Strat players consider the 5-way switch to be an improvement. Some Strat players actually don't like the "in-between" position and the resultant sounds and swap the 5-Way for a 3-way.
2. Why doesn't the bridge have a tone control?
This, to me, is borderline between the concept of a flaw and progress. My Strat has a bridge tone from the factory. It is wired so that if I select any combination with the bridge pickup, the lower tone knob controls the bridge tone. This is a development by Fender. Fender has also developed the S1 switching system to address even more tonal options. So, I do get your observation and don't entirely disagree. It seems to me this would be something they'd have done from the start, too. Though, I think it's only fair to point out that Fender has developed solutions that progress beyond the original design to meet some customer wishes.
3. Volume knob and switch in the way of strumming.
This certainly can happen and many do have this complaint! But, this isn't so much a design flaw as it is a matter of technique and personal playing style. I've read statements before of people having the same complaint about the Les Paul switch position because of the same thing - getting in the way of strumming. A lot has to do with personal physiology and how a person's arm naturally flows when strumming. This isn't to say those who have the issue are playing "wrong". But, I don't have the issue. I made the comment earlier that I really like an ES-335 style of guitar. It feels very natural and instinctive to me. Others can't stand it.
4. No neck and bridge pickup.
Fender did address this with the S1 switching system, which allows even more options. So, no. It wasn't part of the original design, but Fender did address customers' needs, based on the myriad custom wiring schemes that people have developed over the years. Interestingly, not all Fender fans like the S1 and it only appears on premium-level guitars. There again, I wouldn't call this fixing a "flaw" as much I'd call it a new feature set.
4. Vibrato.
I set mine up to be a full floating system - I don't deck it. Mine stays in tune pretty well. It's stable enough to use during performance without worry. However, I observe a few procedures similar to a Bigsby. I lubricate the nut with graphite. I make sure the strings are stretched out. I also installed locking tuners. I find locking tuners to be better than the self-lock stringing method when using vibratos. The locking tuners went a long way toward improving the stability. I also use a wound-third string and I don't run my strings under the string tree. In one sense I do see the point about thinking the vibrato may be flawed, but I improved my overall stability not by doing anything to the trem, itself, but by addressing other areas. So, I'm not averse to admitting there is some flaw somewhere, though I can't say it's strictly with the trem. My personal sense is that the development of new products since 1954, like locking tuners, actually make the trem more usable now than when it was first released.
5. Trem system that eats nuts.
No comment. I've not experienced this. It wouldn't be the fault of the trem as much as the nut.
6. Bridge Design that cuts your hand.
Originally, Strats had a cover over the bridge, similar to the Telecaster ash tray. The protruding allen head screws were not anticipated to be an issue, since the whole affair was under a cover. However, people soon started taking the cover off, as they did with the Tele. However, the modern cast saddles are smooth and don't dig into your palm at all. They are more comfortable than even a Gibson bridge. However, it did take a very long time for Fender to come out with these. So, I would share a bit of a complaint there. Nevertheless, keep in mind that Fender has its purist crowd, too. So, some of the time it's taken to implement new features may be partly a function of not displeasing them. I don't know...but it seems a possible scenario.
7. Output jack doesn't allow for 90 degree plug.
This isn't true. I've done it. It does look a little odd, but you can do it. Personally, if this is to be considered a design flaw, I'd fault the SG worse. The simple, front-facing jack requires use of a 90 degree plug if you have a Maestro or Bigsby and want to swing the arm back. A straight plug interferes with that. There were a few versions of SGs made in the '80s and the new 2018 SG HP guitars which have a side-mounted jack, which I much prefer.
Anyhoo...bottom line is that I don't entirely disagree that some Strat elements do (or did) have some shortcomings, but other items don't really strike me as "flaws", per se.”
To set the context, my comments weren’t posted as a rebuttal or argument. I did not feel things were antagonistic or confrontational toward me on the other poster’s part, either. The poster merely posted some things he felt were design flaws. In fact, I see his point in some cases.
Specifically, he cited the following:
He felt it was a flaw for Fender to only offer a 3-Way switch in Strats and not change to a 5-way until about 20 years later.
He felt it is a flaw that the bridge pickup has no tone control.
He cited how the volume knob and switch get in the way of strumming.
He felt it is a flaw that the neck and bridge pickups cannot both be selected at the same time.
He felt the vibrato could not be kept in tune unless it is decked.
He claimed the Trem system “eats” nuts.
He noted how the bridge digs into your hand.
He believed the output jack cannot be used with a 90 plug.
Sooo....here’s what I said...
“Lots of interesting observations. No hate from me. I don't believe in getting mad at someone over something like preferences in guitars! Life's too short and there's too much music to enjoy.
But, I will offer a few thoughts...
First, I think it's worth noting that Leo Fender did not develop the Stratocaster in a vacuum. Some artists of the day had input into it's design, so it is a bit of a collaborative effort with musicians. I think some perceived design "flaws" from our vantage point of historical hind-sight are more a matter of features and capabilities that were simply not anticipated by Fender or the contributing artists.
Second, I draw a distinction between design "flaws" and design "progression". A flaw would be some problem that prevented the device from performing its intended function. A progression would be some new capability or feature.
So, let me dive in...
1. The 3-way switch.
To me, this is design progression. The original 3-way performed it's desired function. However, the 5-way was developed to accommodate the habits of some to use the "in-between" position for added "quack". You have a point about it taking 20 years to use the 5-way switch, though. Incidentally, not all Strat players consider the 5-way switch to be an improvement. Some Strat players actually don't like the "in-between" position and the resultant sounds and swap the 5-Way for a 3-way.
2. Why doesn't the bridge have a tone control?
This, to me, is borderline between the concept of a flaw and progress. My Strat has a bridge tone from the factory. It is wired so that if I select any combination with the bridge pickup, the lower tone knob controls the bridge tone. This is a development by Fender. Fender has also developed the S1 switching system to address even more tonal options. So, I do get your observation and don't entirely disagree. It seems to me this would be something they'd have done from the start, too. Though, I think it's only fair to point out that Fender has developed solutions that progress beyond the original design to meet some customer wishes.
3. Volume knob and switch in the way of strumming.
This certainly can happen and many do have this complaint! But, this isn't so much a design flaw as it is a matter of technique and personal playing style. I've read statements before of people having the same complaint about the Les Paul switch position because of the same thing - getting in the way of strumming. A lot has to do with personal physiology and how a person's arm naturally flows when strumming. This isn't to say those who have the issue are playing "wrong". But, I don't have the issue. I made the comment earlier that I really like an ES-335 style of guitar. It feels very natural and instinctive to me. Others can't stand it.
4. No neck and bridge pickup.
Fender did address this with the S1 switching system, which allows even more options. So, no. It wasn't part of the original design, but Fender did address customers' needs, based on the myriad custom wiring schemes that people have developed over the years. Interestingly, not all Fender fans like the S1 and it only appears on premium-level guitars. There again, I wouldn't call this fixing a "flaw" as much I'd call it a new feature set.
4. Vibrato.
I set mine up to be a full floating system - I don't deck it. Mine stays in tune pretty well. It's stable enough to use during performance without worry. However, I observe a few procedures similar to a Bigsby. I lubricate the nut with graphite. I make sure the strings are stretched out. I also installed locking tuners. I find locking tuners to be better than the self-lock stringing method when using vibratos. The locking tuners went a long way toward improving the stability. I also use a wound-third string and I don't run my strings under the string tree. In one sense I do see the point about thinking the vibrato may be flawed, but I improved my overall stability not by doing anything to the trem, itself, but by addressing other areas. So, I'm not averse to admitting there is some flaw somewhere, though I can't say it's strictly with the trem. My personal sense is that the development of new products since 1954, like locking tuners, actually make the trem more usable now than when it was first released.
5. Trem system that eats nuts.
No comment. I've not experienced this. It wouldn't be the fault of the trem as much as the nut.
6. Bridge Design that cuts your hand.
Originally, Strats had a cover over the bridge, similar to the Telecaster ash tray. The protruding allen head screws were not anticipated to be an issue, since the whole affair was under a cover. However, people soon started taking the cover off, as they did with the Tele. However, the modern cast saddles are smooth and don't dig into your palm at all. They are more comfortable than even a Gibson bridge. However, it did take a very long time for Fender to come out with these. So, I would share a bit of a complaint there. Nevertheless, keep in mind that Fender has its purist crowd, too. So, some of the time it's taken to implement new features may be partly a function of not displeasing them. I don't know...but it seems a possible scenario.
7. Output jack doesn't allow for 90 degree plug.
This isn't true. I've done it. It does look a little odd, but you can do it. Personally, if this is to be considered a design flaw, I'd fault the SG worse. The simple, front-facing jack requires use of a 90 degree plug if you have a Maestro or Bigsby and want to swing the arm back. A straight plug interferes with that. There were a few versions of SGs made in the '80s and the new 2018 SG HP guitars which have a side-mounted jack, which I much prefer.
Anyhoo...bottom line is that I don't entirely disagree that some Strat elements do (or did) have some shortcomings, but other items don't really strike me as "flaws", per se.”
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BlackSG91
Ambassador of Anarchy
The 5-way switch I believe came out in 1977...the same year Fender trademarked the name "Strat" so other guitar companies wouldn't copy the name. As for the tone options the S1 switching seems to be a great idea but on my Fender Strat I've added a neck pick up on/off switch to get those 2 extra tones like bridge & neck pick up out-of-phase together for that cool nasally tone and then all 3 pick ups at once which gives the guitar a real nice sparkling sound. It's a simple and easy mod that is cheap to do. I believe I also have the Delta Tone on my bridge/middle pup tone control knob where when you dial it up to 10 there is an indent you feel which takes the tone pot completely out of the circuit for a no-load tone. Overall I think the Strat is very well designed and with a proper set-up it will play well. I have mine set up as a floating bridge and it actually stays in tune after heavy whammy bar use.
;>)/
;>)/
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67plexi
Ambassador of Amps
I started my first good guitar was a 1961 Les Paul SG then a Les Paul Custom then in 1984 my guitar teacher said all the songs your learning are played on a Strat.
I went Strat crazy Guitar Trader was my porn I had a seven figure income I found out what Strats I liked after buying 65 of them late 1959 to early 1962 slab board's
I went Strat crazy Guitar Trader was my porn I had a seven figure income I found out what Strats I liked after buying 65 of them late 1959 to early 1962 slab board's