Gibson Changing It's Pickups???

ivan H said:
Oh, I meant magnetic south, but I believe your right about Angus rarely using the rhythm pickup. Cheers
Click to expand...

A friend of mine builds the Schaffer Replicas and he is very close to AC/DC. This magazine has an article about his replicas, and the first thing I noticed was the neck pickup. Have a look!!!!!!

Angus Neck Pickup Reversed.jpg
 
Solodallas. Reading his T top write-up on Manlius Pickups site was where I found that a 490 with the magnet changed to a short A5 = T top. Good guitar player too. Cheers
 
Gahr said:
@Robert Herndon, could you in short sum up which specs you have found that have changed in the pickups?
Click to expand...

The change I see is that the neck and bridge p'ups are identical... although I thought previously that the 490T was wound to be hotter than the 490R. This specification shows them to be wound to the same resistance. So I don't believe this...
not even for a minute. It seems like a mistake.

My experience with the 490T was that it played best at full volume, with the 490R rolled back below 8
on the volume knob. If the new 490T were a hotter pickup (which it should be), the difference would show in how the volume controls might be equalized. If the new 'T is a lower output pickup, then the volume balance will need even more adjustment.
A guitarist can figure out how to do this, but why?

Take a look at this chart of the resistance values of various Gibson and Epiphone p'ups:
http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/53043-gibsonepiphone-pickups-dc-resistance-values/

You'll see that my favorite '57 Classic plus is in the 12 Ohm range, which gives just that much more oomph
and the "old' 490T is in the 8 to 8.5 ohm range, supposedly a bit hotter than the 490R. If Gibson wanted to
improve the 490T, they should wind it to 12 Ohms and then all the Gibson bashing might fall silent.
Give us just a bit more, Henry!

I changed the magnet on my 490T to an A-5 (not knowing that this would change it to a T-top) but just
following the original Seth Lover design. In 2009 and 10 there was a lot of discussion over on ETSG about the
Gibson 490R and 490T, since these were issued on a number of entry level Gibson guitars, including SGs.

The A-5 magnet gave the 490T a little more output maybe... and I played it for a while like this and got some
excellentt tones from it, but it still didn't give the "flip of the switch boost' that I wanted, so when I saw the '57s
go onsale, I pounced and installed them in my favorite SG and have had nothing but delight ever after.

And the 490s with the A-5 in the bridge p'up have gone into the Epi Les Paul Special ll
in place of the 650R/700T pickups in that instrument. Those sounded fine in the Epi, but the Gibsons seem to
have more soul and grace, and less aggression and bite. Which I like.
 
Col Mustard said:
The change I see is that the neck and bridge p'ups are identical... although I thought previously that the 490T was wound to be hotter than the 490R. This specification shows them to be wound to the same resistance. So I don't believe this...
not even for a minute. It seems like a mistake.

My experience with the 490T was that it played best at full volume, with the 490R rolled back below 8
on the volume knob. If the new 490T were a hotter pickup (which it should be), the difference would show in how the volume controls might be equalized. If the new 'T is a lower output pickup, then the volume balance will need even more adjustment.
A guitarist can figure out how to do this, but why?

Take a look at this chart of the resistance values of various Gibson and Epiphone p'ups:
http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/53043-gibsonepiphone-pickups-dc-resistance-values/

You'll see that my favorite '57 Classic plus is in the 12 Ohm range, which gives just that much more oomph
and the "old' 490T is in the 8 to 8.5 ohm range, supposedly a bit hotter than the 490R. If Gibson wanted to
improve the 490T, they should wind it to 12 Ohms and then all the Gibson bashing might fall silent.
Give us just a bit more, Henry!

I changed the magnet on my 490T to an A-5 (not knowing that this would change it to a T-top) but just
following the original Seth Lover design. In 2009 and 10 there was a lot of discussion over on ETSG about the
Gibson 490R and 490T, since these were issued on a number of entry level Gibson guitars, including SGs.

The A-5 magnet gave the 490T a little more output maybe... and I played it for a while like this and got some
excellentt tones from it, but it still didn't give the "flip of the switch boost' that I wanted, so when I saw the '57s
go onsale, I pounced and installed them in my favorite SG and have had nothing but delight ever after.

And the 490s with the A-5 in the bridge p'up have gone into the Epi Les Paul Special ll
in place of the 650R/700T pickups in that instrument. Those sounded fine in the Epi, but the Gibsons seem to
have more soul and grace, and less aggression and bite. Which I like.
Click to expand...

There are other changes...They changed the magnet dimensions and added a new potting method. Additionally, the polarities have been altered to improve hum cancelling as well. From a recent Gibson e-mail "The 490's for 2017 in the Les Paul Tribute have been redesigned to equal out the volume levels and improve quiet operation. They have better hum canceling properties with reversed polarity..."

From the Gibson website: Lead Pickup Reversed Polarity,
Magnet Dimensions: 2.32 x 0.5"
Resistance DC: 7803 Ohms
Tonal & Resonant Advancements: Better Hum canceling w/rev polarity

I always shoot for less output...I consider 7.5-8.5 to be optimum. I would never run a PAF over that impedance level....I have turned down higher impedance pickups because I don't like the tone...
 
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Hi Col, regarding the"pickup sticky" you provided the link for, I don't know where the member ricochet compiled his info from, but some is incorrect. The 57 classic & 57 plus classic are A2 magnets, not A5. Check the specs for them on the Gibson Store site. The DC resistance of the the 57 plus classic is in the range of 8.3k ohms to 8.4k ohms (definitely not 12k). I measured one for Robert the other day to be sure, after I had already told him the day before that I thought they were around 9k ohms. On the 490r/490t, I have never owned so cant be sure of the DC resistance of or amount of winds on the pickups but was under the impression that they had identical winds & resistance, the difference was the pole spacing, with the 490t having the wider spacing. Again, I don't know this for sure & may well be wrong. Perhaps someone who has an older 490r/490t set could measure the resistances for us to clarify. I would expect them to be around 7.7 or 7.8k ohms, same as a T top. Cheers
 
ivan H said:
Hi Col, regarding the"pickup sticky" you provided the link for, I don't know where the member ricochet compiled his info from, but some is incorrect. The 57 classic & 57 plus classic are A2 magnets, not A5. Check the specs for them on the Gibson Store site. The DC resistance of the the 57 plus classic is in the range of 8.3k ohms to 8.4k ohms (definitely not 12k). I measured one for Robert the other day to be sure, after I had already told him the day before that I thought they were around 9k ohms. On the 490r/490t, I have never owned so cant be sure of the DC resistance of or amount of winds on the pickups but was under the impression that they had identical winds & resistance, the difference was the pole spacing, with the 490t having the wider spacing. Again, I don't know this for sure & may well be wrong. Perhaps someone who has an older 490r/490t set could measure the resistances for us to clarify. I would expect them to be around 7.7 or 7.8k ohms, same as a T top. Cheers
Click to expand...

Great investigation!!!! Appreciated!!!!
 
All data from Gibson.com:

Gibson 57 Classic 2 Conductor 7.5k http://store.gibson.com/57-classic-pickup/

Gibson 57 Classic 4 Conductor 8.3k http://store.gibson.com/57-classic-with-4-conductor-wiring/

Gibson 57 Classic Plus 8.3K http://store.gibson.com/57-classic-plus-pickup/

Gibson 490T Bridge (Pre-2017 Model) 8.1k http://store.gibson.com/490t-modern-classic-bridge/

Gibson 490R Neck (Pre-2017 Model) 7.4k http://store.gibson.com/490r-modern-classic-neck/

Gibson Dirty Fingers 14k http://store.gibson.com/dirty-fingers-pickup/

2017 Gibson 490T/490R 7.8k (According to Gibson Not Listed on Website Yet)
 
Col Mustard said:
Cool... if you've got a set of the new ones, I'll be interested in your response to their tone and
output.
Click to expand...

Got em...

According to sources at Gibson, everything produced after September 1, 2016 is a 2017 model...Note the November 9, 2016 production dates...

November 09, 2016 Wind Date Gibson 490's.jpg
 
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Well researched Robert, appreciated. So I WAS wrong on the 490r/t having identical winds. That would be why Solodallas (on the Manlius Pickups site) specifies a 490r for the magnet swap/T top conversion. Cheers mate
 
ivan H said:
Well researched Robert, appreciated. So I WAS wrong on the 490r/t having identical winds. That would be why Solodallas (on the Manlius Pickups site) specifies a 490r for the magnet swap/T top conversion. Cheers mate
Click to expand...

Yes...Solo Dallas (my friend Fil Olivieri) has really done his homework on this....

http://solodallas.com/t-top-replicas-a-successful-tone-report

The biggest misnomer is that PAF's are high-output pickups....when, in reality, T-tops are actually low-output pickups, usually on the 7.5kOhm range.
 
Again, just for clarity, here are the specs pulled from Gibson's website on the 490's in the 2017 Les Paul Tribute:

2017 Les Paul Tribute 490 Gibson Pickups Rhythm / Lead (I just picked a pair of these up)

Style: 490R 490T
Winds/Coil: Screw side/Slug side: 5250 / 5250 5250 / 5250
Material of Wire (gauge): Copper (42) Copper (42)
Coil Dimensions (per coil): 2.61 x 0.68" 2.61 x 0.68"
Coil Material: ABS ABS
Coil Winding Process: Machine Wound Machine Wound
Pole Piece Material: Nickel Nickel
Pole Piece Position from Nut: 18.625" 23.438"
Slug Material: Nickel Nickel
Slug Dimensions (diameter x length): 0.187 x 0.489" 0.187 x 0.489"
Magnet Material: Alnico II Alnico II
Magnet Position from Nut: 19" 23.125"
Magnet Dimensions: 2.5 x 0.5" 2.32 x 0.5"
Polarities: Screw side is the south pole of magnet Reversed Polarity
Cover: Nickel Nickel
Qfactor: 5.62 5.62
ResistanceDC: 7803 Ohms 7803 Ohms
Resonant Frequency: 2715.71 Hz 2715.71 Hz
Tonal & Resonant Advancements: Better Hum canceling w/rev polarity Better Hum canceling w/rev polarity - wax potted to reduce microphonic feedback


Now, let's compare the above specifications to the 490T/490R in the 2016 Gibson SG Faded:

2016 Gibson SG Faded Gibson 490 Pickups Rhythm / Lead (These are the pickups in my SG now)

Style: 490R 490T
Winds/Coil: Screw side/Slug side: 5250/5250 5250/5250
Material of Wire (gauge): Copper (42) Copper (42)
Coil Dimensions (per coil): 6.6294 cm x 1.7272 mm / 2.61" x 0.68" 6.6294 cm x 1.7272 mm / 2.61" x 0.68"
Coil Material: ABS ABS
Coil Winding Process: Machine Wound Machine Wound
Pole Piece Material: Nickel plated steel Nickel plated steel
Pole Piece Position from Nut: 47.3075 cm / 18.625" 59.52998 cm / 23.437 inches
Slug Material: Nickel plated steel Nickel plated steel
Slug Dimensions (diameter x length): 4.7498 mm x 1.24206 cm / 0.187 x 0.489" 4.7498 mm x 1.24206 cm / 0.187 x 0.489"
Magnet Material: Alnico II Alnico II
Magnet Position from Nut: 48.26 cm / 19 " 58.7375cm / 23.125 "
Magnet Dimensions: 9.525 cm x 12.7 mm / 2.375" x 0.5" 9.525 cm x 12.7 mm / 2.375" x 0.5"
Cover: None None
Qfactor: 5.62 5.59
ResistanceDC: 7803 Ohms 7755 Ohms
Resonant Frequency: 2715.71 Hz 2728.20 Hz
 
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HEre is a pickup idea
f363cb55d0cd9208047698715043934a76312ae6922f2b8b89a5a9166a7188bb6g.jpg


FYI--- I LOVE what he did with the VOLUME KNOB!
 
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