Gibson 490T vs Wolfetone T-top vs Brandonwound TTop

syscokid

syscokid

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The thread, New Guitar Gibson Medallion “V”, has slightly derailed into a discussion about replica Gibson T-Tops. Therefore, my copious amounts of GAS is forcing me in seeking for more info.

I have one guitar that I would like to experiment with a swap at the bridge pickup position. It’s a 2002 Gibson SG Special Faded that I refinished with a greenish dye and Tru-Oil. She still has the stock 490R/490T pickups, and IMO, it all sounds inspiringly good. But what if a nice T-Top at the bridge takes it to another level?

Looking for opinions, facts, experiences between the three that I listed…

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syscokid said:
She still has the stock 490R/490T pickups, and IMO, it all sounds inspiringly good. But what if a nice T-Top at the bridge takes it to another level?
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I also have no personal experience with the T-Tops.
Basic specs are A5 mags and a 7.5k wind.

I've had 490T/R sets in a few of my Gibsons.
They work better for me in the Studio LP (modern weight relief) and V (thin mahogany body) than in the Tribute LP (classis weight relief).
Specs are A2 mags and 8.2/8.0 winds.
I seem to like the 490's in brighter/lighter guitars.
My SG has a 57/57+ set.

If you're looking for "another level" in the bridge, perhaps consider the 498T with A5 mag & 14.2k wind.
There're also a few hot ceramic mags like the 500T and Dirty Fingers.
 
My only TTop is in the 76 Custom. Different guitar than my 490 loaded ones, hard to say. The unpotting, while likely making it more responsive and dynamic, does create some higher gain squeal so again, kinda hard for me to judge.
So it seems the T Tops do not have a neck or bridge version, they are the ssme.
As I rarely use neck pickup it might be inetersting to change it out and put in another git bridge spot.
 
490s, R or T are darker and thicker than any T top. The 490T is slightly wider spaced so it actually has a little more resistance than he R spaced version.

Used to be a bunch of talk online (and it was just talk) that a 490R with an oriented A5 mag (short or full length) was the same thing as a T top but it's not. It sounds pretty decent in some guitars and some prefer the mag swap over the standard A2, but it's def not a T top. I've done that several times with the 490s I still own.

The mag swap on a 490 might give you a better idea about trying a T top though. If it's too bright or thin in your guitar , then you may want to steer clear of an actual T top. What value pots are in your SG @syscokid ?
 
JeffB said:
490s, R or T are darker and thicker than any T top. The 490T is slightly wider spaced so it actually has a little more resistance than he R spaced version.

Used to be a bunch of talk online (and it was just talk) that a 490R with an oriented A5 mag (short or full length) was the same thing as a T top but it's not. It sounds pretty decent in some guitars and some prefer the mag swap over the standard A2, but it's def not a T top. I've done that several times with the 490s I still own.

The mag swap on a 490 might give you a better idea about trying a T top though. If it's too bright or thin in your guitar , then you may want to steer clear of an actual T top. What value pots are in your SG @syscokid ?
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I never like the 490’s , not a fan of 500 either.
I do like the 61 in the LP Classic but it’s not what I expect the T-Top to be. If you could buy Comparable pickup to the T-Top , why would you pay $500 for a used one.
 
ibmorjamn said:
I never like the 490’s , not a fan of 500 either.
I do like the 61 in the LP Classic but it’s not what I expect the T-Top to be. If you could buy Comparable pickup to the T-Top , why would you pay $500 for a used one.
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Can't believe I forgot about the 61 burstbuckers. I like those too, they came in my Standard and I wish I'd kept them. I remember really liking the neck, but the bridge was good too, just not as good as the 490T to me. I hated the 490R, it sounded out of phase, even by itself.
 
Funny thing for me about the neck is , I never had one I liked except a cheap Dean China made pickup. The only reason I like it was it could play rhythm tone like a bridge pickup.
It made sense because you could get a good tight rhythm and switch to the bridge with out using the volume.
 
JeffB said:
The mag swap on a 490 might give you a better idea about trying a T top though. If it's too bright or thin in your guitar , then you may want to steer clear of an actual T top. What value pots are in your SG @syscokid ?
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All pots are CTS 500K’s that actually measure in the 540K range. I do need to get reacquainted with this particular SG, for it has been close to a couple of years since I last wanked on it. It’s also set up with a standard C# tuning with 11-52 strings.
 
syscokid said:
All pots are CTS 500K’s that actually measure in the 540K range. I do need to get reacquainted with this particular SG, for it has been close to a couple of years since I last wanked on it. It’s also set up with a standard C# tuning with 11-52 strings.
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T tops were designed around 300K (spec'ed) pots. Alot of actual Norlin era pots measured below 200K because of lack of care/QC back in the day. It's probably safe to say that most were under 300K by a fair margin.

So high value pots and T tops often don't mix very well. Depends on the individual guitar/amp/speakers. I was using 540-560K pots (V&T) for a few years until I got into a much brighter amp and now I'm back into the 480K-ish range with all my guitars. With a T top, that can really makes a difference. Two of my guitars would probably do better with something around 400K with the T Tops.

In the clip I posted elsewhere, I had the higher value pots in the guitar, but the Origin 20 is much less toppy than my Studio Vintage is. Very different amps. I was always looking for more clarity and edge with that amp. The SV20 has that in spades, so now I look for more warmth in my pickups. I have made some T top clips with my SV20 and it's a totally different ball of wax.

That said, I'm not playing heavy strings and downtuning like you do, so I've no idea what will happen in your case. If it were me, I'd try a magnet swap first because it's a cheap and easy way to see what the additional brightness and different midrange structure will do to my setup.
 
JeffB said:
T tops were designed around 300K (spec'ed) pots. Alot of actual Norlin era pots measured below 200K because of lack of care/QC back in the day. It's probably safe to say that most were under 300K by a fair margin.

So high value pots and T tops often don't mix very well. Depends on the individual guitar/amp/speakers. I was using 540-560K pots (V&T) for a few years until I got into a much brighter amp and now I'm back into the 480K-ish range with all my guitars. With a T top, that can really makes a difference. Two of my guitars would probably do better with something around 400K with the T Tops.

In the clip I posted elsewhere, I had the higher value pots in the guitar, but the Origin 20 is much less toppy than my Studio Vintage is. Very different amps. I was always looking for more clarity and edge with that amp. The SV20 has that in spades, so now I look for more warmth in my pickups. I have made some T top clips with my SV20 and it's a totally different ball of wax.

That said, I'm not playing heavy strings and downtuning like you do, so I've no idea what will happen in your case. If it were me, I'd try a magnet swap first because it's a cheap and easy way to see what the additional brightness and different midrange structure will do to my setup.
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Very interesting and detailed info… Thanks! But what do you think about just lowering the bridge volume pot’s resistance by adding parallel resistance to the pot? I could use a resistor based Decade box for this! Not sure how it’s going to affect the taper though.

I also noticed in the Gibson Medallion V thread that you mentioned that with Wolfetone’s version of the T-Top, Wolfe doesn’t like to use the shorter mag that is authentic to a original T-Top. How would Wolfe’s choice of the full length A5 mag affect the pickup’s response?
 
JeffB said:
490s, R or T are darker and thicker than any T top. The 490T is slightly wider spaced so it actually has a little more resistance than he R spaced version.

Used to be a bunch of talk online (and it was just talk) that a 490R with an oriented A5 mag (short or full length) was the same thing as a T top but it's not. It sounds pretty decent in some guitars and some prefer the mag swap over the standard A2, but it's def not a T top. I've done that several times with the 490s I still own.

The mag swap on a 490 might give you a better idea about trying a T top though. If it's too bright or thin in your guitar , then you may want to steer clear of an actual T top. What value pots are in your SG @syscokid ?
Click to expand...
Interesting when you describe the T-Top, I have heard lots about different set-ups and the Seymour Duncan snob forum is king of magnet swaps.

I am getting a feeling certain pickups work in different rigs. A 71 Gibson Medallion V is all mahogany, obviously no maple cap
but there are theories wood means nothing.
Anyway , A bright pickup going in to a plexi and , I’m not totally sure I believe Schenker might have EQ’d B,M,T on 10
Correction edit according to Google that referenced guitar world
For a classic 1975 Schenker sound, dial in the following settings on a vintage-style British amp:
    • Presence: 7
    • Bass: 5
    • Middle: 6
    • Treble: 1
    • Volume I (Gain): 9–10 (Plug into Input I, upper left) [1]
 
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