Crossroads: not the song nor the film

Clockworkmike

Clockworkmike

Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
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So I try not to air my personal life out there much other than what I typically share with you all in regards to my nonsense guitar "playing" or goofy attempts at jokes. But, I figure since we're all family here and I respect the opinions of you all, I'd ask a question about a conundrum I'm in.

I've worked for this company I'm with for about 8 years collectively ( one year as an apprentice which I was mandated to leave after completing, then returned for the past 7 years). Its an odd situation between us, in that on one hand they largely leave me to own devices because I get jobs done quickly and efficiently, and by this token: I've gotten to stay closer to home

But at the same time, I get treated lesser-than compared with other employees in regards to perks ( i.e company vehicles, fuel cards and increased pay). I've complained a lot in recent years to my wife wanting out as well. There are only 5 employees who have been here longer than I have, who all get the perks I mentioned above but newer employees of the past couple of years get the same as well. Me on the other hand, I had to basically strongarm the company into getting a vehicle when they gave the last and oldest one to an apprentice ( unheard of in our business) who got drunk and crashed his regular vehicle: I basically had to threaten to quit on the spot when he showed up to my jobsite in it that I was running, in which they reluctantly gave me that vehicle from him. I have to pay out of pocket for all the fuel and servicing, often arguing to get reimbursed ( which is the norm). Also, I am almost constantly undermanned on these jobs compared to others, barely receiving help

But today, an old friend from my apprenticeship days called me about an opportunity: the company he works for is massively larger and needs help. They are opening a new division that focuses on the type of work I usually perform and are needing people to govern the jobs. They offered a new truck, a 10% pay increase, company credit card to run a job 5mins from my home, BUT, before this all would be handed over; I'd have to go to a job 1h 35m away for an indefinite period and use my own vehicle in the meantime. There is no timetable when I would be given the upgrade, but they "assured" me I would indeed be given the perks in a short time and a crew under me.


So the question here is this: is it better to stay where I am knowing the daily battle of getting equal treatment while enjoying close proximity OR is it better to take the chance and gamble for a much easier job with higher rewards that I would have to put time into, far away? Since I've said for so long I wanted out, here is a chance but it comes with high risks I suppose
 
You've already left your current job in your head. But before I'd make the switch, I would make them give you a time-table for the upgrades for sure. Sometimes the greener side of the fence only looks that way because someone painted a window you're looking through.

Good luck man.
 
You are in a good place right now. You have a secure job, so there is no pressure there.
You arent entirely happy, but not miserable.

The new place is basically a lateral move (10% increase) but the perks you would like. except you wont get them until ... whenever.
Your commute is long. Even by NJ standards (my commute is 1 hour but that is normal here).

If it were me, I'd explore the offer and see if they will put a time frame on the perks and the commute. Then weigh the risk/reward.

In writing dont mean a thing. Any company can change whats in writing with, "we are pivoting" or "we changed direction". Which sounds like a dirty move, and it is. But most of the time when you are hired there is always this line somewhere, "duties are subject to change" or something like that.

Ultimately, this is a life decision with obvious risk. Moving from one company to another always has some risk.
Sorry I couldnt give you wiser words, but I hope this helps a bit.
 
Appreciate it fellas. I've been sitting here mulling it all day and will give my friend an answer to hand to the company this weekend. At this point, like you all mentioned: I need the guarantee from them directly BEFORE I join. It's a great opportunity and this electrical construction company is the largest in this area and in fact, are actually global. So that means work projections are far more stable than anyone else but truthfully I haven't missed a day I didn't ask for with this group either.

That comes with good and bad, because I've noticed over the years working for lots of companies along the way in the past that the bigger the company often means you are just a smaller spoke in the great big wheel. You often don't have to work as hard and aren't as stressed because the workload gets spread around further. But you are also less important and easier to replace.

But then again, I've kinda hit the ceiling with this company I'm with: no room to go any higher ( though newbies seem to make it above me just fine).

A coworker mentioned using this offer as leverage against the company I'm with to finally get the same treatment as the others by negotiating with them. While that's a possibility of working, it's also risky in its own way and sad I have to resort to strong-arming them for something anyone else gets day 1
 
Clockworkmike said:
Appreciate it fellas. I've been sitting here mulling it all day and will give my friend an answer to hand to the company this weekend. At this point, like you all mentioned: I need the guarantee from them directly BEFORE I join. It's a great opportunity and this electrical construction company is the largest in this area and in fact, are actually global. So that means work projections are far more stable than anyone else but truthfully I haven't missed a day I didn't ask for with this group either.

That comes with good and bad, because I've noticed over the years working for lots of companies along the way in the past that the bigger the company often means you are just a smaller spoke in the great big wheel. You often don't have to work as hard and aren't as stressed because the workload gets spread around further. But you are also less important and easier to replace.

But then again, I've kinda hit the ceiling with this company I'm with: no room to go any higher ( though newbies seem to make it above me just fine).

A coworker mentioned using this offer as leverage against the company I'm with to finally get the same treatment as the others by negotiating with them. While that's a possibility of working, it's also risky in its own way and sad I have to resort to strong-arming them for something anyone else gets day 1
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Mike.
I’ve had employees try the leveraging a new job technique against me. The way I look at it is, if they are doing that, they really don’t want to leave, otherwise I’d have an exit notice from them already.

Also, especially in smaller companies, that kind of thing sticks in their craw and future offers won’t happen because of it.

What happens if you use it as leverage and they call your bluff. Then you’re stuck.
 
Clockworkmike said:
That comes with good and bad, because I've noticed over the years working for lots of companies along the way in the past that the bigger the company often means you are just a smaller spoke in the great big wheel. You often don't have to work as hard and aren't as stressed because the workload gets spread around further. But you are also less important and easier to replace.
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I know exactly what you mean. Last July I moved from a small stable company, to a much larger with a massive pay raise and awesome benefits. Yesterday I had a brief conversation with the department lead and was told, "well, our department may be gone by June. But here's a raise and a bonus in the meantime."
 
Michael I feel your frustration.
Been through this ordeal multiple times.
But I have never been given a company vehicle.
I am about to jump ship again, because of lack of work, but if you play your cards right.. it could be a very viable move.
I still would go with the larger outfit, just because of the workload, and not becoming slow (another vacation without pay)
Good luck on your decision.

Mitch
 
I would at least look into it. Try to bargain for more than 10%. Also, look into other aspects such as Vacation, sick time, type of health insurance, dental and optical, 401K with matching, and potential growth within the company. Get everything in writing from people you talk to or interview with, and get the employee manual from HR. Most companies give you this during the interview process. Stuff like vacation time can be bargained with sometimes. If they do give the company car and gas/credit cards, that is a huge perk. Having the start date and contract in hand is better leverage when giving your notice, and seeing if there is any serious offer to retain you.

I interviewed with one of our competitors, and was hired twice. Both times I went through the entire hiring process up to the drug test and start date, only to have HR say that they would not match my vacation, or give me sick time. In all, I would have lost three weeks PTO annually. Along with having to use my own car and only get paid mileage, it completely cancelled the 14% pay increase I would have received. In the long run, it made more sense for me to suck it up, and stay where I'm at for 4-5 more years. Then I can retire.
 
SG John said:
I would at least look into it. Try to bargain for more than 10%. Also, look into other aspects such as Vacation, sick time, type of health insurance, dental and optical, 401K with matching, and potential growth within the company. Get everything in writing from people you talk to or interview with, and get the employee manual from HR. Most companies give you this during the interview process. Stuff like vacation time can be bargained with sometimes. If they do give the company car and gas/credit cards, that is a huge perk. Having the start date and contract in hand is better leverage when giving your notice, and seeing if there is any serious offer to retain you.

I interviewed with one of our competitors, and was hired twice. Both times I went through the entire hiring process up to the drug test and start date, only to have HR say that they would not match my vacation, or give me sick time. In all, I would have lost three weeks PTO annually. Along with having to use my own car and only get paid mileage, it completely cancelled the 14% pay increase I would have received. In the long run, it made more sense for me to suck it up, and stay where I'm at for 4-5 more years. Then I can retire.
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Sounds like you made the right call honestly!

I guess I left out a big detail in all of this, so I'll try to explain it a lil better, whether or not it changes things too much on opinions. So sorry for the following being so long.




I actually belong to the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, which means that no matter what company I work for; I never am truly an employee of a company rather than a lease I guess you'd say. We have about 13 contractors in this area that work hand-in-hand with the local hall and how it works is they place a call for X amount of electricians and then the hall begins calling out from the list we have ( the book) in the order you signed to it. If you want the job? You take it. If it's someone you don't like, you turn down the call upto 3 times before losing your spot to the next person below you.

Typically, a company sends out the call, we go answer it and then when the job is finished we report back to the hall. But if a company really wants to keep you as almost a full-time employee and you like the company as well, they can turn it into what's called an "open-call" and basically as long as it's mutually beneficial: you could spend your entire career there or until you decided to leave one day. That's where I am at now, after being with this group for about 7 straight years. If I were to leave this company, I would either have to have to sign "the book" and wait for the next company to make a call or, in this particular case, have them make what's known as a "foreman By Name" call where they ask for someone specifically and you skip the book entirely.

If this other company were to do that? By rule, they'd have to pay an extra 10% ( foreman's pay) for a minimum of 6 months whether I had a crew under me or not. Normally, foreman's pay requires having 10 workers under you but a company can choose to pay you that regardless and permanently ( which is what has been going on in the company I'm at now with everyone else coming in). But, if i were to leave the company I'm at now, sign " the book" and this other company I'm talking about were to pick me up? They arent entitled to pay me anything but the standard rate with no extras.

As far as pay rates go, they are fixed throughout the entire hall: everyone who is a Journeyman Wireman-1 makes the same per hour all across the board. Same goes with our health insurance, dental, optical, retirement and supplemental insurance card. So whatever company I work for? My pay and benefits never change. You get "raises" by the perks of company vehicles, gas cards, foreman's pay (10% extra), area foreman's pay (15% extra) and ultimately the rarest, general foreman's pay (25% extra).

I would be happy just making my regular pay and benefits in this company, if it wasn't for running jobs while undermanned while coworkers are doing the same yet getting the extra pay, new vehicles, credit cards for expenses etc. If we all were cut down to the regular benefits, I wouldn't have room to complain anywhere. But right now I'm doing far more than them and getting less. That's why when this other company came knocking, it sounded like a better opportunity.

But when I first talked to them, they alluded to the foreman by name call, a vehicle and a crew. Now, its went sideways and they changed their script by saying " well, if you go to this job this far away for regular pay and do well for a while, maybe then we can do what we talked about". So it's kinda like they pulled the rug on me a bit from what we initially discussed and that makes this seem like an unnecessary risk to take.

Leaving where I am, where I do happen to have the vehicle at least only to go further away for lesser right now without one, on the possibility of getting more later on, is the situation basically. The original deal would've been great, now it seems very conditional and no guarantees
 
Bit of an update here I guess:

I mentioned this company trying to recruit me a few months back. Well at that time, they didnt have a good deal in place and ultimately, it just kinda fell thru on all sides.

But today, their Project manager called, made an offer thats nearly impossible to refuse: work 2 mins from my house now for at least 8 months, then onto a job about 30mins away. 10% more pay jump than I get now, plus being one of their 3 new foreman for their commercial division, working alongside a guy who took me under his wing when I first got in. If I go outside of the 30min mark, they give me a company vehicle. But all work for the foreseeable future would be confined to within about an hour max travel

Basically, it's being given an upper position in a new start up division of a very larger company. Within a couple years, I wouldn't even be working rather overseeing a crew. Company I'm at now can't even come close to matching this offer and hasn't even tried.

So as of tomorrow, I'm informing the current company of my resignation and heading over to the dark side
 
Clockworkmike said:
Bit of an update here I guess:

I mentioned this company trying to recruit me a few months back. Well at that time, they didnt have a good deal in place and ultimately, it just kinda fell thru on all sides.

But today, their Project manager called, made an offer thats nearly impossible to refuse: work 2 mins from my house now for at least 8 months, then onto a job about 30mins away. 10% more pay jump than I get now, plus being one of their 3 new foreman for their commercial division, working alongside a guy who took me under his wing when I first got in. If I go outside of the 30min mark, they give me a company vehicle. But all work for the foreseeable future would be confined to within about an hour max travel

Basically, it's being given an upper position in a new start up division of a very larger company. Within a couple years, I wouldn't even be working rather overseeing a crew. Company I'm at now can't even come close to matching this offer and hasn't even tried.

So as of tomorrow, I'm informing the current company of my resignation and heading over to the dark side
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I love it when a plan comes together.. even if it wasn’t planned !!
Congratulations Michael my friend
 
Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
I love it when a plan comes together.. even if it wasn’t planned !!
Congratulations Michael my friend
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Thank you my friend! Yeah it kinda caught me off guard because the call came out of the blue in the middle of work. Admittedly, it threw me for a second but once they started their pitch, I was like " hell let's do this thing" lol
 
Clockworkmike said:
Thank you my friend! Yeah it kinda caught me off guard because the call came out of the blue in the middle of work. Admittedly, it threw me for a second but once they started their pitch, I was like " hell let's do this thing" lol
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Those are the kind of phone calls i still get regularly, despite just wanting to be home every night.

Blessings be upon you!!!!
 
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