We recently bought our daughter a new (her first) bicycle. We bought from a family-owned bike shop nearby. I still try to shop local whenever possible.
ClassicTone Going Out Of Business
- Thread starter syscokid
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Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
Thats great! I try my best to shop as local as one can. Living in the sticks of WV, that poses lots of challenges musically speaking but in most other avenues, its possible in the next town over. My town is borderline ghost town so not many shops, large or small
Amp Mad Scientist
Ambassador of Heresy
Dagnall
But the sad part is when we order transformers made in China, we take a major quality downgrade.
I'm more inclined to ask Dagnall to build the transformers and pay more....
Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
Yes. I've yet to see Chinese made transformers that I'd be happy with.
The same can be said about amplifiers whose manufacture has moved from say, UK or USA to China. Anyone who thinks the amplifiers made in China are to the same quality as their UK or USA made predecessors is deluding themselves.
While ever the buying public believe all the advertising spin & keep buying these "now Chinese made" amps etc things will only get worse. I won't get into the ridiculousness of some of this "spin" (like absolutely false claims of "class A (push pull)" operation ('cause that would be a whole 'nother rant).
In reality, it's up to the buying public to demand the quality of US or UK etc made products, rather than accepting inferior Chinese junk as a (so called) quality product.
Corporations would soon get the message if sales fell off when they moved production to China.
Ok, rant over. Cheers
Amp Mad Scientist
Ambassador of Heresy
like absolutely false claims of "class A (push pull)" operation ..."
I take it you are referring to Mesa Boogie
and their fake class A amplifiers?
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I was actually thinking of a few of the brands coming out of China, just one example of these ridiculous claims, a two EL34 amp outputing 50 watts & advertised as having a class A output stage. Two EL34's in class A push pull will give like 22 watts of power at best, & there's quite a few more examples I could give, but you get the picture.like absolutely false claims of "class A (push pull)" operation ..."
I take it you are referring to Mesa Boogie
90% (or more) of the buying public have absolutely no idea what class A operation means, but it does sound damn good, doesn't it. Class A,,, ooohhh, nice, better get one of them.
Cheers
SG John
Ambassador of Cool Guitars and Amps.
Honestly, I haven’t seen a thing I’d be happy with spending my money on from China. This goes for everything from tools, to clothes, to guitars. Especially if it involves giving Jeff Bezos or the Walton family my money. Having been in the manufacturing trade since ‘79, I’ve seen too many people's lives crushed by sending their jobs overseas so the rich owners of the companies “off shoring” could reap greater riches by having slave labor under totalitarian regimes, and not having to pay labor costs at the standard of living at the time in the U.S.
If something costs me $10.00 more from a local or regional merchant who is not Amazon or Walmart, they’ll get my money. If I had kids, or was just buying entry level stuff for myself, I’d still buy from a local “mom and pop.” I’d need to look into lessons, accessories, and future purchases and maintenance. All of which is best done with a good local merchant, who you may run into at any local establishment when they’re with their kids or whatever. I doubt Bezos or the Waltons will say “let me get your coffee” when you run into them at the coffee shop in the morning.
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Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
Nah they're the kind that would probably call the cops if you bumped into one of them at a coffee shop or scream out " Here, just take my wallet but dont hurt me, you bum!" just by looking at them wrong lol
CoyotesGator
Ambassador of Reptilian Rum Bar Affairs
Freakin sucks.
Ive bought quite a few of their xfmrs and still have a couple on the shelf.
Guess I need to screen shot all of the data pages for when they go dark.
Ive bought quite a few of their xfmrs and still have a couple on the shelf.
Guess I need to screen shot all of the data pages for when they go dark.
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I've got Classictone transformers in my 5F1 Champ build & have used a couple of their Drake 352-114 filter chokes with no problems. I also have a Classictone reproduction of the Drake 1202-118 (Marshall JMP50) PT in one amp. It runs noticeably (though not excessively) hotter than similar Marstran/Heyboer transformers I have in use. IMO, the Marstran/Heyboer PT is a better quality product. Cheers
Can you explain 'Class A,' 'Class B,' and 'Push-Pull' with respect to amplifiers???
Also, what class is the Origin 50H???
67plexi
Ambassador of Amps
Read this
They claim Vox AC-15 and AC-30 Fender Champ Marshall 18 watt are Class A. I'm not sure.
The only true class A amp I have worked on is a Cary 300B after the rebuild it sounded fantastic 15 watts per channel.
And the power tubes that were used NOS Western Electric Engraved Base 300B, Black Plate, Late 1930's,
Clockworkmike
Ambassador of STACKS in WV SHACKS
Basically a Class A can be summed up like a VOX amp or boutique combo amp: smaller scaled and uses a positive voltage to the grid. It allows the signal to the amp to be greater at all times, so instant response. But it kills the tube life much faster because max current is always there and typically they arent found in larger wattage amps, though some can be but it means everything inside is massive. Theres also lower headroom because its a lower plate voltage.
Class AB uses a negative voltage to the grid and is the most common, found in most standard issue amps today like Marshalls, Fenders, Crates, Oranges, most Mesa Boogies ( those come up in a sec). Basically with AB, everything is balanced better, tubes can run at lower plate currents, more headroom, more bottom end, in otherwords: everything opposite a Class A. But many folks feel that theres less response when playing an AB vs an A.
Finally, theres push pull which is a combination of both. Many Mesas have this capability and can sorta switch the class from one to another or even blend them ( they refer to it as Simul-class) and they will typically have different tubes in order to pull this off ( a Mark 3 for example wouldve came with 4 6L6cs in a 100w version, or a 75w Simulclass with 2 6L6s and 2 El34s, going between 15 watts in A or 75watts in AB by switching to just the 6L6s or using both 6L6 and EL34s).
I believe your Origin falls under the AB design if im correct.
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chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
SG John, and Others. As you have seen elsewhere, I support my mom and pop shops, too. John, MAN, who the hail would besmirch a mom and pop shop unless of course the shop is a true A HOLE? While I shop at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc, I still applaud and keep shopping at the mom and pop hardware store down the street from my childhood home. It is a family business that fills the needs of the neighborhood, and it was actually the first place I ever bought a tool for myself before I was 10-11 years old. If I recall, it was what I thought was the greatest tool ever invented at that time. A pair of Vice Grips.
OP
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
A lot of great info can always be found at the Aiken Amps website.Read this
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
Ok, I'll try to explain all this understandably Robert, just know its very early in the morning here (not yet light) & I've just woken up.
A Class A output stage means that current flows in each of the output tubes for the whole 360 degrees of the signal waveform. The tubes never reach (current) cut-off. Class A is a very pure form of amplification (low distortion), but also a very inefficient form of amplification in that you can only get very low output power from each tube (because of the way they are operating).
The Vox AC15 & AC30 are often thought to have a class A output stage, but this is not the case as was proven by Aiken. They are simply a hot biased class AB1 output stage.
A "push pull" output stage (used in practically all guitar amps with more than one power tube) is one in which each power tube (or pair of etc if there's more than two power tubes) is fed with a signal that is 180 degrees out of phase with that being fed to the other tube (or tubes). This "phase inversion" is done by the phase inverter feeding the power tubes. The amplified signal from each power tube is then combined & summed by the output transformer to give us our original waveform "current amplified". We'll get to how a push pull stage operates shortly, in the "class B" section.
A "class A" output stage can be single ended (one tube), single ended parallel (more than one tube) or a push pull type (again, more than one tube).
Class AB1, class AB2 & class B can only operated in push pull.
Now, to define AB1, AB2 & class B.
Ok, we've covered class A, where current flows for the entire 360 degrees of the signal in each tube.
In class B (push pull), current flows in each power tube for exactly 180 degrees of the signal waveform. Remember, it is a push pull type so each half or "side" of the output stage is fed a signal 180 degrees out of phase with that being fed to the other half or "side" of the output stage.
So one side of the output stage amplifies half of the waveform & then reaches (current) cut-off. Meanwhile, the other side of the output stage (that had been in cut-off while the other side passed current or "amplified") now begins to conduct & amplifies the other half of the signal waveform.
So the output tubes operate as a team, one side pushing half of the waveform up, the other side pulling the other half of the waveform down, hence the term "push pull".
We've covered that the output from each "side" of the output stage is then combined & summed in the output transformer. (Damn it's got light out there, best grab one more coffee).
This brings us to class AB, so called because the output tubes are operating "in between" the conditions for the two previously mentioned types of operation, class A where current flows in each power tube for the full 360 degrees of the signal waveform, & class B where current flows in each power tube for exactly half (180 degrees) of the signal waveform.
So in class AB push pull, the tubes are alternately in (current) cut-off, but current still flows in each tube for more than half of the signal waveform (but not the entire 360 degrees of the waveform).
The suffix of 1 in class AB1 shows that grid current does not flow in the output tubes.
The suffix of 2 in class AB2 shows that grid current does flow in the power tubes at some point during operation.
Sounds All very complicated, doesn't it, but really, that's it in a nutshell.
Your Origin 50, like most guitar amps with two or more power tubes would be operating in class AB1. Cheers
A Class A output stage means that current flows in each of the output tubes for the whole 360 degrees of the signal waveform. The tubes never reach (current) cut-off. Class A is a very pure form of amplification (low distortion), but also a very inefficient form of amplification in that you can only get very low output power from each tube (because of the way they are operating).
The Vox AC15 & AC30 are often thought to have a class A output stage, but this is not the case as was proven by Aiken. They are simply a hot biased class AB1 output stage.
A "push pull" output stage (used in practically all guitar amps with more than one power tube) is one in which each power tube (or pair of etc if there's more than two power tubes) is fed with a signal that is 180 degrees out of phase with that being fed to the other tube (or tubes). This "phase inversion" is done by the phase inverter feeding the power tubes. The amplified signal from each power tube is then combined & summed by the output transformer to give us our original waveform "current amplified". We'll get to how a push pull stage operates shortly, in the "class B" section.
A "class A" output stage can be single ended (one tube), single ended parallel (more than one tube) or a push pull type (again, more than one tube).
Class AB1, class AB2 & class B can only operated in push pull.
Now, to define AB1, AB2 & class B.
Ok, we've covered class A, where current flows for the entire 360 degrees of the signal in each tube.
In class B (push pull), current flows in each power tube for exactly 180 degrees of the signal waveform. Remember, it is a push pull type so each half or "side" of the output stage is fed a signal 180 degrees out of phase with that being fed to the other half or "side" of the output stage.
So one side of the output stage amplifies half of the waveform & then reaches (current) cut-off. Meanwhile, the other side of the output stage (that had been in cut-off while the other side passed current or "amplified") now begins to conduct & amplifies the other half of the signal waveform.
So the output tubes operate as a team, one side pushing half of the waveform up, the other side pulling the other half of the waveform down, hence the term "push pull".
We've covered that the output from each "side" of the output stage is then combined & summed in the output transformer. (Damn it's got light out there, best grab one more coffee).
This brings us to class AB, so called because the output tubes are operating "in between" the conditions for the two previously mentioned types of operation, class A where current flows in each power tube for the full 360 degrees of the signal waveform, & class B where current flows in each power tube for exactly half (180 degrees) of the signal waveform.
So in class AB push pull, the tubes are alternately in (current) cut-off, but current still flows in each tube for more than half of the signal waveform (but not the entire 360 degrees of the waveform).
The suffix of 1 in class AB1 shows that grid current does not flow in the output tubes.
The suffix of 2 in class AB2 shows that grid current does flow in the power tubes at some point during operation.
Sounds All very complicated, doesn't it, but really, that's it in a nutshell.
Your Origin 50, like most guitar amps with two or more power tubes would be operating in class AB1. Cheers
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aon
Well-Known Member
Since I like to hoard data, I ran a crawl on the classictone website and copied every PDF there is on there, along with the cross-reference Excel spreadsheet.
In case you or anyone else of you guys want a copy off those to have as a backup in case the site goes down, drop me a PM and I'll send it to you.
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
The Fender Champ IS a class A amplifier, as is the Havard 6G10, the Princeton models 5C2, 5E2, 5F2, 5F2A, Vox AC4 etc. These single output tube type amps are known as "single ended" amps
The 18 watt Marshall can't be a class A push pull type power stage, too much output power from a duet of EL84's to be operating in class A.
A duet of EL84's operating in class A push pull will give at best about 11 watts of output power.
We don't really see class A push pull used in guitar amps, it's an inefficient use of the output tubes & we're looking for POWER in guitar amps.
Where we do see class A (in all its forms) used is in high end audio amps, where output power is disregarded in favour of fidelity & low distortion.
Class A operation is the oldest & purest form of amplification, also the most inefficient, class A triode especially so, on all of the above points.
Some serious design work goes into producing a high quality class A triode amp like the Cary 300B that Plexi has posted a pic of earlier, from the power supply right through to the outputs. Just take a look at the size of those output transformers (& there'd be some serious design work been done in producing them too). For a real audio treat, try hooking that 300B through a high end horn system & prepare to be amazed. Cheers
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I like it 