can you go amp-less?

Personally, I’ve become so intrigued by actually hearing my guitars for the first time - without any amp or guitar speaker coloration - by plugging direct into my mixer, that I’m contemplating a rig that will let me play live with no amp, speaker cab, or guitar processor at all!

I have all the gear to do it. It’s just a matter of putting it all together. I mean, when you think about it, guitar amplifiers were never originally envisioned to “shape” your guitar’s sound. They were made to, well, amplify the output of the pickup. That’s it. They used the same audio amplification technology that the PA systems used, just in a smaller package.

Seriously, if any of y’all want to hear what your pickups really sound like, plug directly into the Hi-Z input of a mixer.

But, this is another idea that may never come to fruition because, well, I really do like the sound from my little Rivera!
 
smitty_p said:
Personally, I’ve become so intrigued by actually hearing my guitars for the first time - without any amp or guitar speaker coloration - by plugging direct into my mixer, that I’m contemplating a rig that will let me play live with no amp, speaker cab, or guitar processor at all!

I have all the gear to do it. It’s just a matter of putting it all together. I mean, when you think about it, guitar amplifiers were never originally envisioned to “shape” your guitar’s sound. They were made to, well, amplify the output of the pickup. That’s it. They used the same audio amplification technology that the PA systems used, just in a smaller package.

Seriously, if any of y’all want to hear what your pickups really sound like, plug directly into the Hi-Z input of a mixer.

But, this is another idea that may never come to fruition because, well, I really do like the sound from my little Rivera!
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I've actually been considering getting an Axe FX III. Since we don't run anything FOH (only vocals and drums) I would still need a way to project it through my speaker cabinets, but I am not opposed to the idea....

I'd like to see a signal chain for one of these....
 
smitty_p said:
Personally, I’ve become so intrigued by actually hearing my guitars for the first time - without any amp or guitar speaker coloration - by plugging direct into my mixer, that I’m contemplating a rig that will let me play live with no amp, speaker cab, or guitar processor at all!

I have all the gear to do it. It’s just a matter of putting it all together. I mean, when you think about it, guitar amplifiers were never originally envisioned to “shape” your guitar’s sound. They were made to, well, amplify the output of the pickup. That’s it. They used the same audio amplification technology that the PA systems used, just in a smaller package.

Seriously, if any of y’all want to hear what your pickups really sound like, plug directly into the Hi-Z input of a mixer.

But, this is another idea that may never come to fruition because, well, I really do like the sound from my little Rivera!
Click to expand...

Now you are starting to "hear" what we strive for in the top Los Angeles recording studios - I call it Transparency of Tone.

I feel much the same way with speaker response.

Some guys have fixated on running nothing but the old mid-spikey/farty Greenbacks that Hendrix used, largely because there was nothing else available to Jimi at the time. I prefer a speaker with flat response and the ability to run at elevated volume levels without breaking up.

For my rig, there is only ONE speaker that can do this - The 12" Celestion Copperback Neo 250 Watt - Made in England. They afford me a 2x12 mahognay cabinet that fits in my trunk and weighs only 24 pounds. The speakers are not cheap. They run from $199.00/each to $259.00 each depending on supplier.

It affords me the ability to run each speaker with 100 watts from one output of the Bi-Chrous 200's and I can crank it to full volume and never hear the cones tearing, or the voice coil stalling - which is the trademark Celestion sound "growl" anomaly that tradition has engrained in guitarists minds as being somehow desirable.

If I could not get the Celestion Copperbacks, then I would use these:

 
Robert Herndon said:
I would be open to Axe Fx II just based on how frequently you see them being used live and in the professional arena down here in SoCal. I would need to see a signal chain and figure out how to use it with a 2x12 cabinet, as we seldom - if ever - run guitars through the PA.
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I‘m always interested to read of how peoples’ experiences differ. I’ve always run to the PA! My first experiences playing live with any regularity consisted of running a processor (a little Digitech RP-3…which I still have!) direct to the house mix. Even when I began using amps live, they were always mic’ed to the PA and I’d get a foldback to my monitor.

For quite awhile, I switched from real amps to using a Line 6 Pod X3 Live when playing live. That’s when it was Line 6’s latest processor. I actually like that little system! Its biggest weakness, in my opinion, is it’s cabinet simulations. But, you can disable the internal cab sim and run to an external cab simulator loaded with your own impulse responses and it really makes the X3 Live sound a lot better. I mean, I talk of getting an Axe Fx, but the more economical thing would probably be to get an external cab sim box that can take custom IRs.
 
smitty_p said:
I‘m always interested to read of how peoples’ experiences differ. I’ve always run to the PA! My first experiences playing live with any regularity consisted of running a processor (a little Digitech RP-3…which I still have!) direct to the house mix. Even when I began using amps live, they were always mic’ed to the PA and I’d get a foldback to my monitor.

For quite awhile, I switched from real amps to using a Line 6 Pod X3 Live when playing live. That’s when it was Line 6’s latest processor. I actually like that little system! Its biggest weakness, in my opinion, is it’s cabinet simulations. But, you can disable the internal cab sim and run to an external cab simulator loaded with your own impulse responses and it really makes the X3 Live sound a lot better. I mean, I talk of getting an Axe Fx, but the more economical thing would probably be to get a external cab sim box that can take custom IRs.
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I'm not against the processer into the PA style you mention, but since I play so many venues where PA is only used for vocals, I need a rig that is 100% stand alone. I cannot depend on being able to run through a PA.

I'm frequently called up to fill in for a missing guitarist, so I need to be able to throw the gear in the Mustang, drive to a venue (with no clue what will be used) and setup my rig in les than 10 minutes.

TBTH, our best live sound was running all amps at stage volumes, and running only the drum kit and the vocals through the PA.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I'm not against the processer into the PA style you mention, but since I play so many venues where PA is only used for vocals, I need a rig that is 100% stand alone. I cannot depend on being able to run through a PA.

I'm frequently called up to fill in for a missing guitarist, so I need to be able to throw the gear in the Mustang, drive to a venue (with no clue what will be used) and setup my rig in les than 10 minutes.

TBTH, our best live sound was running all amps at stage volumes, and running only the drum kit and the vocals through the PA.
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Totally get it! I’m not suggesting my, or any, experience is “right” or the way it should be. It all comes down to what makes best sense at the time.
 
smitty_p said:
Totally get it! I’m not suggesting my, or any, experience is “right” or the way it should be. It all comes down to what makes best sense at the time.
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TBTH, I think running through the PA is the better way to go. But, I seldom have that luxury as a hired gun, so if I switch, I need something super-compact that I can get into my Mustang and provide 100% stand-alone capability.

I'm not sure I could do this with Axe FXX II and the required amplification????
 
When I played at church, I was primarily on the acoustic. Maybe 5-6 times I played electric. Drug my 50lb Traynor in an out of the building. My back still hates me.

If I were ever to step back into that role, thinking I’d go a different route and forego the amp and use my Boss GT1 straight into the board. I realize it’s not up to the ability of some of the units you guys are talking about….. but it’d be way more enough for what I’d be doing. 1644675248184.jpeg
 
Me and the Wife went to see some local guys jam last nite.Bass player owns the little old time movie theator and they have jams first fridays of the month.Was awesome.Only real amp i seen was the keyboard amp.noboby complained,nobody asked what cap was in dudes Les Paul.Folks NOBODY GAVE A poop BOUT ALL THAT.These guys rocked to.NO BOB SEAGER OR FREEBIRD. Played Thin Lizzy,The Smithereens,Wall of Voodoo,All kinds of stuff.pics aint great
 

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I use this 99.9% of my playing time
YES it took a little while to get the "patches" and settings how I like them in MY ROOM -- through my monitors--- but doesnt it take TIME to dial in ANY amp/pedal board.(????---the answer us yes sometimes YEARS)

So....... I have about 12 "amp" settings with pedals and effects and cabs etc ive flavored to my taste/mood. and there ya go easy peasy ....
1644688320634.png
its very very easy to set up using the online editor it has a looper and drum machine and tuner -- and can record straight to DAW --its a mini studio at my fingertips
uses CDCM-HD-F.I.R.E. and DUAL DSP core* processors
242 effects
64 amp models
60 cab models
100 pedal sims
12 microphone style/brand options that are completely moveable in postion to the speaker
50 additional "hotone original" pedal sims
USER and 3rd party IR uploads
198 presets.
--- that will certainly allow anyone to find a tone (or upload their own) that will "work" for any situation
it can go straight to house via XLR or unbalanced RCA --or can go right into the front or the effects loop of any amp or play silently with headphones ........


However that said Im shopping for another VOX Vt20X ...... simply because I LOVE the online toneroom editor ... and I want to try it (I didnt have good studio monitors last time I owned one) through the monitors :)
 
Robert Herndon said:
I could say the weight alone was sufficient motivation for me to sell all my big cabs.

Nobody is recording down here in SoCal with amplifiers, except in very, very rare instances.

Most studios are using Blue Cat Destructor or Avid Eleven Mk II for amp simulation.

We are also seeing more and more live performances where guys are patching a Headrush or a GT-1000 straight into the board and the sound is just phenomenal.

So, yes, you could do it, and a lot of guys down here are doing it...
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Weight is still not a factor for me, as my amps are light compared to what I do at work. My tool boxes alone weigh in at 65 and 115 pounds. Servo drives are around thirty pounds, motors are about 50+, and spindles start at a couple of hundred. On big machines I'm usually working on a ladder.

We're also not playing out right now, and I really don't know the status of my band(s).

When we do play out, we're in small clubs, and you need to bring an amp. There are times when my Deluxe Reverb or AC30 are good enough, but I usually need to bring a 50 watt head and a cab of some sort. Sometimes there's a backline to make things smoother between bands, but no instruments ever go through the PA. Maybe some bass, keys and kick drum, but the PA is usually vocals only. I'm also not in a cover band where we're bringing our own PA and sound man to gigs either. I can see where it would make sense, especially playing GB or wedding gigs.
 
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