Calling Magnet Swap Experts - A2 to A4 and A5

Robert Herndon said:
My Les Paul is the only guitar I have that isn't flipped....we just wrapped up a marathon session and I played only on the bridge!!!! Oh The Humanity!!!

It doesn't really affect how I use my guitars, as I have never played the middle position in an "un-flipped" humbucker guitar, I use either neck or bridge, but never the middle - unless it's flipped... :)
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Wow. I rarely go a single song without switching pickups multiple times.

I use the middle position a lot. I'm not an "out-of-phase" guy...I'm a "blend in-phase" guy. I like to play around with the blending of the two pickups.

I do understand the usefulness of the OOP sound and could see using it on occasion. But, if I was going to try something like that, I'd probably opt to have the wiring switchable to, electronically, accomplish the same thing by means of a push-pull pot, or something.
 
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Gahr said:
I've never used A4 magnets (although I would like to try!), but I have swapped the A2 magnets for A5s in a couple of pairs of '57 Classics. I like the top end and somewhat tighter bass in the A5s. But I have to say the differences are not enormous.
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Gahr, etc. I could google it I am sure ( I actually did a brief search), but what makes a 57 Classic a 57+? Is the + built w/ an A5 or what?
To add to my question, I seemed to have found it is an A2 but output is about 8.3. So, how is this achieved? In the windings?

Sorry smitty, I have no clue about the magnet swap u ask about.
 
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chilipeppermaniac said:
Gahr, etc. I could google it I am sure ( I actually did a brief search), but what makes a 57 Classic a 57+? Is the + built w/ an A5 or what?
To add to my question, I seemed to have found it is an A2 but output is about 8.3. So, how is this achieved? In the windings?

Sorry smitty, I have no clue about the magnet swap u ask about.
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The only difference is that the Classic Plus has more winds. Since the wire gauge is the same, the higher resistance derives from more turns of wire. The other variable - magnet type - is also the same. Consequently, in this case it does follow that the higher resistance suggests a higher output.

However, be cautious of interpreting the DCR resistance (the ohms rating, i.e., "8.3 K ohms") as "output".

It is not output level. This is one of the most annoying things I see in marketing literature.
 
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chilipeppermaniac said:
smitty I did SOME googling haha AFTER I deleted the part of my post you quoted. Now I added it back in. Oh yeah, I typed output but meant DCR like you said.

Nobody talks about magnet swaps in '57 Classics?
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Aaaahh, understood! But, I didn't mean to single you out. I was actually grumbling about the way marketing is written and how it misleads the guitar-playing community, using your post as my starting point.

BTW, I've read that same forum thread quite a bit over the last couple of days, too!
 
smitty_p said:
Wow. I rarely go a single song without switching pickups multiple times.

I use the middle position a lot. I'm not an "out-of-phase" guy...I'm a "blend in-phase" guy. I like to play around with the blending of the two pickups.

I do understand the usefulness of the OOP sound and could see using it on occasion. But, if I was going to try something like that, I'd probably opt to have the wiring switchable to, electronically, accomplish the same thing by means of a push-pull pot, or something.
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I'm almost universally on the bridge, but we are in a different genre....
 
smitty_p said:
The only difference is that the Classic Plus has more winds. Since the wire gauge is the same, the higher resistance derives from more turns of wire. The other variable - magnet type - is also the same. Consequently, in this case it does follow that the higher resistance suggests a higher output.

However, be cautious of interpreting the DCR resistance (the ohms rating, i.e., "8.3 K ohms") as "output".

It is not output level. This is one of the most annoying things I see in marketing literature.
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My '57 Classic Plus (in my Gibson S-G) measured 9.4kΩ, but I think it has even less output than an original PAF that measures 7.4kΩ. It's a good pickup, but not enough output for what I do. The S-G is relegated largely to contract studio work because it has a very clear, articulate and versatile tone...
 
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smitty_p said:
Magnets shipped.

Waiting...
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b68scv1f9no11.gif
 
Okay...

So, the magnets came in today and I swapped them over.

Now, I have an A4 in the neck pickup and an A5 in the bridge.

This video tutorial from Throbak is what I used to get a sense of the best way to go about the swap. I pretty much did exactly what is shown here as far as disassembly and reassembly are concerned.


I didn’t do anything different from what the above video shows, except I used a compass to verify magnetic polarity, and I didn’t add tape under the cover as there was already wax on the bobbins. Even though the pickups are wax potted, the heat from desoldering was enough to soften the wax enough to get the cover off. I didn’t have to do any additional heating of the cover.

Honestly, getting the guitar apart was harder than the magnet swap.

As for the sound...

The change is pretty dramatic. I don’t know what I was expecting, but this guitar doesn’t sound like it used to, which I suppose was the point. But, there was a moment where I was a little sad because it felt almost like I lost a guitar due to the change in sound!

Overall, both the bridge and neck are louder and thicker.

Using the bridge under a lot of gain, it can definitely get more rude than it used to be. It’s probably more like what someone would expect from an SG. The 57 Classics can be kind of tame. That was one of my issues with it, and I felt like I could never get quite the push from them that I needed, though in the right context they sounded good.

Playing clean, the neck is pretty full sounding. I do get a fuller bass response with it. Some people complain about the 57 Classics being muddy. Mine weren’t; they were actually pretty clear, but lacked some fullness. The A4 magnet does add some fullness to the sound, which is good. I actually had to lower the neck pickup a bit to keep from getting wooly under gain.

This has edged my SG closer to the sound of my Les Paul, to be honest. I plugged my Les Paul Custom in for comparison, and the SG sounds more like it than it used to, but a little more snarly.

I’ve just been playing on my practice rig. I need to play on my live rig to really get a sense of how much I like it. My reaction may sound less than super enthusiastic, but I’m reserving full judgement until I play it live. I suppose I was rather surprised at the change.
 
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smitty_p said:
Okay...

So, the magnets came in today and I swapped them over.

Now, I have an A4 in the neck pickup and a rough A5 in the bridge.

I used this video to get a sense of the best way to go about the swap:


I didn’t do anything different from what the above video shows, except I used a compass to verify magnetic polarity. Even though the pickups are wax potted, the heat from desoldering was enough to soften the wax enough to get the cover off. I didn’t have to do any additional heating of the cover.

Honestly, getting the guitar apart was harder than the magnet swap.

As for the sound...

The change is pretty dramatic. I don’t know what I was expecting, but this guitar doesn’t sound like it used to, which I suppose was the point. But, there was a moment where I was a little sad because it felt almost like a lost a guitar due to the change in sound!

Overall, both the bridge and neck are louder and thicker.

Using the bridge under a lot of gain, it can definitely get more rude than it used to be. It’s probably more like what someone would expect from an SG. The 57 Classics can be kind of tame. That was one of my issues with it, and I felt like I could never get quite the push from them that I needed, though in the right context they sounded good.

Playing clean, the neck is pretty full sounding. I do get a fuller bass response with it. Some people complain about the 57 Classics being muddy. Mine weren’t; they were actually pretty clear, but lacked some fullness. The A4 magnet does add some fullness to the sound, which is good. I actually had to lower the neck pickup a bit to keep from getting wooly under gain.

This has edged my SG closer to the sound of my Les Paul, to be honest. I plugged my Les Paul Custom in for comparison, and the SG sounds more like it than it used to, but a little more snarly.

I’ve just been playing on my practice rig. I need to play on my live rig to really get a sense of how much I like it. My reaction may sound less than super enthusiastic, but I’m reserving full judgement until I play it live. I suppose I was rather surprised at the change.
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SOUNDCLIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
So...umm...hey ya’ll...guess what I did?

One day after changing the magnets in my pickups, I changed the magnet in my bridge pickup...again!

When I ordered the A4 and A5 from Philadelphia Luthier, I also ordered Un-Oriented A5 (UOA5) magnets. I had read about these while researching this magnet swap but didn’t take the hype too seriously. But they were less than $6.00 for a pair, so I figured I’d order a pair just for kicks.

Well, I swapped a UOA5 into the bridge this afternoon (after replacing the radiator in my daughter’s car...another story).

These definitely do lend a different sound to the pickup. THIS is what I was after for my bridge sound!

It’s powerful, yet not as sharp on the highs as a normal A5. It lends a strong, full tone, without being wooly or indistinct. On cleans it also blends better with the A4 in the neck.

Now I feel better about this...!
 
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smitty_p said:
So...umm...hey ya’ll...guess what I did?

One day after changing the magnets in my pickups, I changed the magnet in my bridge pickup...again!

When I ordered the A4 and A5 from Philadelphia Luthier, I also ordered Un-Oriented A5 (UOA5) magnets. I had read about these while researching this magnet swap but didn’t take the hype too seriously. But they were less than $6.00 for a pair, so I figured I’d order a pair just for kicks.

Well, I swapped a UOA5 into the bridge this afternoon (after replacing the radiator in my daughter’s car...another story).

These definitely do lend a different sound to the pickup. THIS is what I was after for my bridge sound!

It’s powerful, yet not as spiky on the highs as a normal A5. It lends a strong, full tone, without being wooly or indistinct. On cleans it also blends better with the A4 in the neck.

Now I feel better about this...!
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YAY Again, Smitty. I don't think I am anxious to swap magnets in my ES 135 57's no matter what u say LOL
 
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