Bye, Bye Gibson.

To me, my biggest complaint about Henry J is not his experimenting with new business opportunities. That's just part of business. So, he tried making a foray into consumer electronics and it may be backfiring. Part of growing a business is trying to diversify. I don't really have any heartache about the attempt.

My issue is centered around the complaints you read about Henry's treatment of his employees, such as you read on Glassdoor.com. I realize a lot of comments on Glassdoor can be hyped-up venting from disgruntled employees, but there are so many there that it's hard to imagine that they are all not credible.
 
gball said:
He's been at the helm since, what?, 1986? Jeez, since '86 I have probably bought and sold 20 or more Gibson guitars, and currently have 4 Hank-era ones.
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I'm down to one LP and one SG and the SG will most likely go...I do love the LP I have though. And like you I have bought and sold at least 20 or more...
 
Sp8ctre said:
I'm down to one LP and one SG and the SG will most likely go...I do love the LP I have though. And like you I have bought and sold at least 20 or more...
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In retrospect, I don't even know why I kept flipping them. There were a couple really incredibly good guitars in that bunch, the kind you kick yourself later for getting rid of. Out of the rest, most were really good to excellent and a few were just average. Not a dog in the bunch. Honestly think that over the last 15-20 years Gibson has been building, overall, the best, most consistent guitars in their history. At one time or another I have owned Gibsons from every solidbody era, 50's to today, and I have played many more than that and despite the fact that my favorite Gibsons ever are Norlin-era LPC's I really think the current ownership has done a great job with the guitars. Maybe not with other aspects of the business, but the guitars for sure.
 
gball said:
In retrospect, I don't even know why I kept flipping them. There were a couple really incredibly good guitars in that bunch, the kind you kick yourself later for getting rid of. Out of the rest, most were really good to excellent and a few were just average. Not a dog in the bunch. Honestly think that over the last 15-20 years Gibson has been building, overall, the best, most consistent guitars in their history. At one time or another I have owned Gibsons from every solidbody era, 50's to today, and I have played many more than that and despite the fact that my favorite Gibsons ever are Norlin-era LPC's I really think the current ownership has done a great job with the guitars. Maybe not with other aspects of the business, but the guitars for sure.
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I got rid of a couple dogs in the lower price range...don't really regret getting rid of any...the R8 I bought was a huge let down, but not because it was bad per se, but because I expected so much more for the over $4K price tag...
 
Sp8ctre said:
I got rid of a couple dogs in the lower price range...don't really regret getting rid of any...the R8 I bought was a huge let down, but not because it was bad per se, but because I expected so much more for the over $4K price tag...
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Any differences over about $2000/$2500 are really incremental IME, and the increments are very small. I also went looking at R8's and played every one I could get my mitts on without driving too far and I just could not find one that was so much better than my Traditional that it would justify the price - in truth I really didn't think they were any better at all, just a bit nicer looking. I played a couple of Collector's Choice LP's that were as good or better than any guitar I have ever played in my life but they were well over my $5k limit at the time.
 
guitar-anti-hero-flickr-shannonpatrick17-631.jpg



;>)/
 
I like to live in a world where Gibson is possible...

That said, I simply don't get it about any guitar that costs more that $3000.
I don't think the buyer gets anything other than prestige if he pays another thousand
or two (or five...). So that part of the business plan is a mystery to me.

I own two Gibsons, and both are superb. Both have plenty of Gibson elegance, excellent
wood, very well made, wonderful tone and sustain. World class guitars.
Luna 2017*@100.jpg
Mine are low end models, humble Gibson SG specials...
Unbeatable at the price IMHO. They ooze elegance and Gibson mojo.
I read posts by guys who spent much more, and all the nit picking and
cork sniffing kind of gets me down. I feel sorry for them, and feel
lucky to have made two excellent choices.... and paid ~ $600 for
each of them.
Luna 1@100.jpg
Mine are working man's guitars, and they work by golly.
I hope Gibson never forgets how to make guitars like this. In the past,
Gibson wisdom was that the low end models paid the bills and kept
the company solvent, while the high end models earned the compay Prestige.

I have respect for all Gibson afficionados, and wish earnestly for the
company to build guitars that comply with the strictests standards.
My standards are what I consider reaiistic, and mostly tonal in nature.
For tone, Gibson remains near the top, in spite of all the honk and quack
about pickups by other makers.

The hype about Gibson guitars being made in USA is only relevant inside this
country. It's U.S. politics, which don't have to make sense. I'm sure the issue
is meaningless to musicians outside our borders. But if Gibson moves their
plant to some third world nation and throws all their U.S. workers out of their
jobs, I will cross them off my list. They can supply the Indonesian Rock and Roll
industry.
 
Col Mustard said:
I like to live in a world where Gibson is possible...

That said, I simply don't get it about any guitar that costs more that $3000.
I don't think the buyer gets anything other than prestige if he pays another thousand
or two (or five...). So that part of the business plan is a mystery to me.

I own two Gibsons, and both are superb. Both have plenty of Gibson elegance, excellent
wood, very well made, wonderful tone and sustain. World class guitars.
View attachment 11816
Mine are low end models, humble Gibson SG specials...
Unbeatable at the price IMHO. They ooze elegance and Gibson mojo.
I read posts by guys who spent much more, and all the nit picking and
cork sniffing kind of gets me down. I feel sorry for them, and feel
lucky to have made two excellent choices.... and paid ~ $600 for
each of them.
View attachment 11815
Mine are working man's guitars, and they work by golly.
I hope Gibson never forgets how to make guitars like this. In the past,
Gibson wisdom was that the low end models paid the bills and kept
the company solvent, while the high end models earned the compay Prestige.

I have respect for all Gibson afficionados, and wish earnestly for the
company to build guitars that comply with the strictests standards.
My standards are what I consider reaiistic, and mostly tonal in nature.
For tone, Gibson remains near the top, in spite of all the honk and quack
about pickups by other makers.

The hype about Gibson guitars being made in USA is only relevant inside this
country. It's U.S. politics, which don't have to make sense. I'm sure the issue
is meaningless to musicians outside our borders. But if Gibson moves their
plant to some third world nation and throws all their U.S. workers out of their
jobs, I will cross them off my list. They can supply the Indonesian Rock and Roll
industry.
Click to expand...


I have a 2016 Gibson SG and its OK...paid about $800 for it new with case. Took another $500 to make it useable in the studio...I

I prefer my custom made doubleneck - made in Cuppertino, California... :)

IMG_20171229_8623.jpg

IMG_20180201_32441.jpg

IMG_20161001_4833.jpg

I've had several sets of Gibson pickups - 490's, 57 Classics, Classic Plus, 498R & 500T...

Thro-Bak's SLE-101 is both quieter and more articulate.

Tone is subjective, but I've played enough to prove ti my ear that Gibson these days is hit and miss...certainly not seeing Norlin-era quality.
 
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Col Mustard said:
The hype about Gibson guitars being made in USA is only relevant inside this
country. It's U.S. politics, which don't have to make sense. I'm sure the issue
is meaningless to musicians outside our borders. .
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that Col. There seem to be quite a few markets around the World where the cachet of USA-made guitars and amps carries a lot of water, where that connection represents something more than just the place the widget was made. Japan is one example, much of Asia in fact. And in a lot of Europe and Australia. Yeah, we tend to get a bit jingoistic about it here, but it is definitely not just the US that wants these guitars to continue to be manufactured in the US.

I really don't think we are ever going to see production move offshore. It seems the guitar-making end of things at Gibson is still quite healthy, plus it would spell the death-knell of the brand more surely than any other thing could.
 
I think Gibson could return to a more consistent, American made guitar. However, it seems to me, that when the chips are down, Gibson concentrates on more gimmicks and funky paint jobs because that's easier then improving quality control...
 
I wish they still had only four models for the Les Paul. The regular, Junior, Special and Custom. I think HJ will be out of the picture and someone else will take the iconic brand back into the fold. As far as people knocking Gibson now, they are entitled to knock it. They use to knock the Norlin era Gibson. If you find a Norlin era Les paul with T top pups, they will hit you up for around two grand or more. These back in the late 70s went for around $500 and a case was around $50, which was a chunk back then. If Fender is still around after being knocked about by CBS Musical, I feel Gibson might have a chance to survive. I like the traditional looking V. I don't care for the new one. If others like and want it that is fine. They better have some deep pockets if they want the new fancy (?) Modern V.
 
LEts see.......2 henry "Js"
1 Kalmazooki Epiphonicate that is more GIBBO than Epi---
A NORLIN ERA (the horror)--- is AMAZING
and a CHIBSON BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
gball said:
I'm not so sure about that Col. There seem to be quite a few markets around the World where the cachet of USA-made guitars and amps carries a lot of water, where that connection represents something more than just the place the widget was made. Japan is one example, much of Asia in fact. And in a lot of Europe and Australia. Yeah, we tend to get a bit jingoistic about it here, but it is definitely not just the US that wants these guitars to continue to be manufactured in the US.

I really don't think we are ever going to see production move offshore. It seems the guitar-making end of things at Gibson is still quite healthy, plus it would spell the death-knell of the brand more surely than any other thing could.
Click to expand...

If the "made in USA" logo still means something overseas, that's good.
It's more amusing to me then, to hear US players bad mouthing Gibson as if they were
the bottom of the barrel, just read Sir Robert's comments on this thread, or any thread.
He's been consistently bashing Gibson on anybody's post, and telling the world over and over
what a bad time he's had.
Never a good word, unless its for the guitars of the past. He won't miss Gibson if they sink.

And it seemed sardonic to me in the past, to hear people boshing Gibson... Because people always did.
The Norlin years were regarded as the worst, until the prices of earlier Gibsons went through the roof.
Now people listen to their Tar Backs and their Bill Lawrence P'ups
and praise them, when they used to yank them out immediately and install DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups.

It's just bizarre. I read all this stuff, and I don't know what to think.
So I just play my great guitars, and count myself lucky to be capable
of enjoying them.
 
I personally think Gibson is losing ground in the market. I have read about problems they have been having over the last couple of years. You don't need to spend $2,000 to $3,000 dollars for a very good guitar. Gibson and Fender have been riding the wave for many years on their names. But now the time has come some guitarists out there are realizing there is stiff competition now in the market. You can buy a very good guitar today for $1,000 . As far as I'm concerned Gibson has become greedy over the years, but now the market is changing quickly, most consumers now wont pay the prices they are asking. A few weeks ago I purchased a Godin Core P90 CT. This guitar had a selling price $895.00 this axe is very well made. I'm kinda stuck on Godin guitars. I live in a city that has a large guitar shop, that I frequent there often, I have sat down and played Gibson, Fender, Gretsch , Jackson and many others. There is a chap who gave a review on the Core with the P90s. You can go read it yourself in Sweetwater. He has played guitars for 30 years . He says this guitar exceeds that of a comparably priced Gibson and equals that of a PRS S2 series. There are many rave reviews on Godin guitars all you have to do is use the internet to find them or read reviews in the guitar magazines. I'm not saying these things to be boastful , just saying you can buy a high Quality guitar that is equal to or better than Gibson or Fender for much less money. I believe over the years people have been bombarded with Gibson and Fender, there are some out there that if you don't own a Gibson or Fender you don't have a good guitar. I Own a Godin Progression Strat that I purchased for $1,000 last November, I will put that up against an $2,000American made Strat any day of the week . I believe Gibson at some point will go offshore, because they want to make huge profits like they have over the years. They cant make the huge profits now they once made, times are changing and now with making some below standard guitars they are struggling. Time will tell.
 
Robert Herndon said:
I think Gibson could return to a more consistent, American made guitar. However, it seems to me, that when the chips are down, Gibson concentrates on more gimmicks and funky paint jobs because that's easier then improving quality control...
Click to expand...

See, that's just it. I've read a lot of anecdotal, individual experiences where people have had issues. Fine, not saying you didn't, but what I am saying is that for every person that I have heard with a complaint I am pretty sure Gibson has sold a thousand or more without one. Nope, I don't have anything more to go on than having been diddling with guitars and hanging out with guitar players for the last 41 years, but I know many, many more people that have what they characterize as "perfect out of the box" Gibsons (myself included) and read many, many more NGD posts stating same than I know or read of people claiming Gibson is "failing" in the QC department. Hell I was just at Sam Ash earlier today picking up strings and took a look at the 2018's they had and every one I picked up was flawless. Yeah, sometimes something wrong makes it through - they are a high volume manufacturer of a product that has an unusual amount of hand finishing for this era - but they stand behind their products and will make it right if given a chance, not to mention the return policies of the various dealers. No manufacturer bats 1000 in that department otherwise you wouldn't require a warranty for anything you buy. What I see more often than not is people who don't go through the warranty or return process claiming Gibson has a sweeping problem in the QC department that become very vocal on the internet about their personal, isolated experience.

I've said it before: I believe Gibson is building the highest quality, most consistent guitars in their history. Those fables '50's and '60's guitars? All over the place. No two are alike and not one of them is perfect because there was even more individual hand-building in a volume manufacturing setting, with work being done by factory assembly workers. Yet they are the grails? It's not like Gibson was some tiny, individual luthier in 1958 - they were a large manufacturing operation cranking out product, just as today, and equally prone to problems if not moreso.
 
Col Mustard said:
If the "made in USA" logo still means something overseas, that's good.
It's more amusing to me then, to hear US players bad mouthing Gibson as if they were
the bottom of the barrel, just read Sir Robert's comments on this thread, or any thread.
He's been consistently bashing Gibson on anybody's post, and telling the world over and over
what a bad time he's had.
Never a good word, unless its for the guitars of the past. He won't miss Gibson if they sink.

And it seemed sardonic to me in the past, to hear people boshing Gibson... Because people always did.
The Norlin years were regarded as the worst, until the prices of earlier Gibsons went through the roof.
Now people listen to their Tar Backs and their Bill Lawrence P'ups
and praise them, when they used to yank them out immediately and install DiMarzio Super Distortion pickups.

It's just bizarre. I read all this stuff, and I don't know what to think.
So I just play my great guitars, and count myself lucky to be capable
of enjoying them.
Click to expand...

Like. Like. Like. Like!

Somehow I’ve managed to collect 5 Gibsons over the last 12 years. Three were purchased new. I don’t have $1000 in to any single one. All have hard shell cases(included in the less than $1000 in to each). All five have gigged flawlessly.
Are they the best thing since sliced bread? Nope. Perfect? Nope...but nearly so to me.
I like them none the less.
Do I have others that keep pace, or better? Yep.
But I still am happy to have them.
Sorry if that differs from the norm, but it is the truth. All are 2003 or later.
In my collection of guitars, they are outnumbered by other brands.
I don’t, and won’t, randomly bash other brands, because I look at them as tools and if it fits the task....
 
I had issues--- I also have AMAZING Gibsons that make me very happy---Ive had ones I hated--- Ive had ones that where "luke warm" --- but I have had that with ANY name brand---they are all individuals--- regardless of name on headstock.
you get KEEPER USA's you get crap--- you get KEEPER CHina, Korea, Germany, Canada......you get crap---its just the nature of the instrument---there are pianos that sound AMAZING and ones that suck--- its LIFe.
 
HOWEVER-----I will amend that with I never met a USA PEAVEY I didnt like ;)

I didnt "write off" Gibson--- and I am damn glad I didnt --- I just went to OTHER versions/years/options.....

I dont like harleys--- but I didnt STOP riding--- life is fluid---changing-- ADAPT AND OVERCOME
 
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