Buffered pedals

jtcnj said:
20m42p.jpg


Good point Ray, I'm always acting the fool.
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My only point is that everyone says that buffers negatively affects their tone, but no-one says HOW it affects it. Then, they complain about high end loss with capacitance. So if it is not high end that you are losing with buffers, but in fact getting it back, and that is what you want, then what is the problem exactly?
 
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I read that passing signal through the non-engaged pedal circuitry may color the signal in one way or another and is not predictable or controllable.
but, the context was as a pitch for tru-bypass.

Maybe that leans in the direction of what you are asking as I have no claim to know definitively.
I think there is more legend, lore, and parroting Guruspeak in this hobby than most, so there's that.

With me thats kind of like eating some sketchy street cart food with an anonymous sketchy hot sauce to boot.
In a bizzarro world scenario the signal is causing the mayhem instead of the pathway the signal travels.
 
jtcnj said:
With me thats kind of like eating some sketchy street cart food with an anonymous sketchy hot sauce to boot.
In a bizzarro world scenario the signal is causing the mayhem instead of the pathway the signal travels.
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That is a good reason - why add unnecessary and unpredictable ingredients. I leave that to my sloppy fingers!
 
RVA said:
My only point is that everyone says that buffers negatively affects their tone, but no-one says HOW it affects it. Then, they complain about high end loss with capacitance. So if it is not high end that you are losing with buffers, but in fact getting it back, and that is what you want, then what is the problem exactly?
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, buffers don't really give anything back...they prevent you from losing it in the first place.

There are some reasons for doing things a little differently, but generally you would put the buffer early in your chain. It functions as a sort of guitar interface or impedance bridge to the rest of your chain. Honestly though, some pedals are made with pretty good buffer circuitry, themselves. So, additional buffers aren't necessary.

As to what you could lose with a buffer, the most common issue would be loss of highs. But, that depends on the design of the buffer, itself. Some are designed better than others.
 
smitty_p said:
Just to be clear, buffers don't really give anything back...they prevent you from losing it in the first place.

There are some reasons for doing things a little differently, but generally you would put the buffer early in your chain. It functions as a sort of guitar interface or impedance bridge to the rest of your chain. Honestly though, some pedals are made with pretty good buffer circuitry, themselves. So, additional buffers aren't necessary.

As to what you could lose with a buffer, the most common issue would be loss of highs. But, that depends on the design of the buffer, itself. Some are designed better than others.
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Yes, there is no reason why a buffer should not be totally transparent. It's just a matter of using a decent op-amp (like a 5532) and big resistors. You can also do it with just a FET. This is better in some ways, although there is always some signal loss doing it this way.
 
As far as placement, my favorite pedal company, Empress, makes their buffer as a loop, so it is at the beginning and end of your chain - like 2 buffers in one.

Buffer+


Now available in stereo!

Buffer+ Stereo

 
RVA said:
Unless you have already lost it. Then they give it back when added.
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Did you watch the full video you posted?

Buffer+

At 4:14 it shows pretty nicely how a buffer is used. It is not placed at the end of a very long cable. Rather, it is placed at the beginning of a long cable. The idea is that it functions as an impedance bridge, converting the relatively high impedance of your guitar pickups to a much lower impedance to more efficiently drive a long cable run.

This is one reason, as Don noted, buffers are not as important with active pickups...they already have a pretty low impedance, as compared to passive pickups.

Having said that, if the first thing your guitar hits without the buffer has a much lower input impedance than the buffer has, putting the buffer in front of that device, even after a long run, would allow you to suffer less high end loss.
 
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smitty_p said:
Did you watch the full video you posted?

Buffer+

At 4:14 it shows pretty nicely how a buffer is used. It is not placed at the end of a very long cable. Rather, it is placed at the beginning of a long cable. The idea is that it functions as an impedance bridge, converting the relatively high impedance of your guitar pickups to a much lower impedance to more efficiently drive a long cable run.

This is one reason, as Don noted, buffers are not as important with active pickups...they already have a pretty low impedance, as compared to passive pickups.

Having said that, if the first thing your guitar hits without the buffer has a much lower input impedance than the buffer has, putting the buffer in front of that device, even after a long run, would allow you to suffer less high end loss.
Click to expand...
I watched it some time ago when I got that pedal. I was just playing with semantics.
 
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In my experience most musicians know how to play music, not how their gear actually works. Hence they fall victim to all kinds of snake oil merchants, otherwise known as guitar magazine writers, and the effects companies pander to this and love the idea of 'hey, I know you are happy with what you've got, but here's why you shouldn't be, and here's the solution to all your problems, available from our dealers for the recommended retail price of $______'

The first rule of selling: create a demand where no need exists.
 
I do not own a buffered OR a true bypass --- however I can concur that DAVE SLOVEN is 110% correct in the demand/need paradigm of sales success.

Except where yours truly is concerned as mentioned I dont own nor do I desire either of these contraptions
 
I guess...

Behringer Tube Screamer and a Holy Grail reverb.....---so all pedals are either one or the other then ---so I DO HAVE one er or the other ---or perhaps one of each????
 
Yeah, pretty sure “true bypass” is marketing hyperbole thought up by companies that either couldn’t or wouldn’t design a proper buffer. If you use a bunch of TB pedals together you get so much signal degradation that you end up having to buy a separate buffer! I’ve given up on them and use buffered pedals AND an input buffer to boot (that makes the most difference).
 
I know better but out of convenience got in the lazy habit of leaving several of my pedals set up and just unplug the One Spot.
Like 7 or 8 of them.
I noticed my clean tones just didnt sound as good or chimey a few nights ago, at the begining of my session.
I thought I should check into this.

I was just getting pretty good running through The Ventures Walk Dont Run and The Lively ONes Surf Rider a while back but havent played them in a while. Man, I almost wanted to cry; I really took a step back by not practicing them.

Then i hit the OD and hacked my way through the rhythm parts of The Trooper and Number of the beast, etc. for an hour or so where it didnt seem to matter.
I've been especially working on my picking hand technique with these, as well as just trying to play the songs.
 
I find myself mostly on tight stages.
6 foot wire from guitar to pedals.
6 foot wire from pedals to amplifier.
In extreme cases 2 ten footers.
 
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