Bass recording techniques

[PelliX]

It seems there are a fair number of bass players among us, so I thought I'd try to gain a little insight from the knowledge available. First of all, I'm not really a bass player but I often enough do the honors when tracking in the studio and I enjoy it on occasion, too. No slap, no craziness, just fingertips or pick. Initially I had a bit of a struggle getting a decent bass tone recorded and tried all kinds of things, eventually ditching my usual "mic it and go" approach when recording guitars in favor of a SansAmp BassDriver DI. That unit delivers usable bass tones every time, no exception. Generally I'm looking for the bass to 'sit in' the mix rather than stand out, but for the odd time I need that I run the BD through a Marshall and you get ... well, the Lemmy sound give or take.

Those of you who are more serious about this, how do you go about recording? Mics, methods, gear, effects involved pre- or post recording?

 

[Thatbastarddon]

I’d like to give a well thought out answer to this, but I’m headed out soon.
Short answers…
Kick drum mic’s(Audix D6 here), edge of the dust cap, on axis at the grill…move around to tune to taste.
Second mic (on occasion)…multiple choice…Audix i5, 57/58, 421, even LDC.
OR instead of second mic, blend DI(like your SansAmp) with kick mic, or use one of the 2nd mic choices…if that’s the flavor you’ve got.
Blend to taste…usually more kick than second.
Less likely to hi-pass filter, more likely to use a few dB of low shelf cut.
Compression 1176 style, starting with 8:1 ratio, adjust to taste for material. Fairly fast attack. Maybe slightly slower release compared to the attack. Makeup gain to balance.

Alternative DI
A “good standalone preamp”…I’m game to give anything a try….into a “good standalone compressor”(if available)…also happy to experiment.
I have a favorite “channel strip” for this…Universal Audio 6176. A bit pricy, but I’m also recording vocals, and occasionally used to record “actual drums”. This preamp/comp can push a power amp to a cab(use your imagination…preamp out direct to fx return/power amp input on whatever amp etc.)
However, there are plenty of more affordable alternatives out there.

Gotta go…

 

[PelliX]

Kick drum mic’s(Audix D6 here), edge of the dust cap, on axis at the grill…move around to tune to taste.

Really, that close, right at the grill? Interesting, as that was one of the things I struggled with a little; finally ending up maybe 30-50cm back. Counter-intuitive, really, given that I figured I would leverage the proximity effect from the dynamic mics. I may have another little bash at this.

OR instead of second mic, blend DI(like your SansAmp) with kick mic, or use one of the 2nd mic choices…if that’s the flavor you’ve got.
Blend to taste…usually more kick than second.

Yup, the SansAmp gave me a DI feed on top of the (generally) two mics I use and blend to taste. It was then that I started to realize I needed the mics less and less and got a better noisefloor out of the BD (and it's not the quietest thing out there when you turn up the presence and gain, etc). Tried a couple of boundary mics at various positions, but ended up predominantly relying on a 906 and the BD. Then I dropped the 906 (not literally...) and that's where I've been since mostly.

Less likely to hi-pass filter, more likely to use a few dB of low shelf cut.
Compression 1176 style, starting with 8:1 ratio, adjust to taste for material. Fairly fast attack. Maybe slightly slower release compared to the attack. Makeup gain to balance.

Same indeed. Apart from the obligatory 1176's I also often use a compressor with sideband (either software or a DBx) to let the bass duck under the kick, depending on the track. Sometimes I shape the bass around the kick, sometimes it just needs to get out of the way...

Alternative DI
A “good standalone preamp”…I’m game to give anything a try….into a “good standalone compressor”(if available)…also happy to experiment.
I have a favorite “channel strip” for this…Universal Audio 6176. A bit pricy, but I’m also recording vocals, and occasionally used to record “actual drums”. This preamp/comp can push a power amp to a cab(use your imagination…preamp out direct to fx return/power amp input on whatever amp etc.)
However, there are plenty of more affordable alternatives out there.

Makes sense. I've done a bit of experimentation in that sense, but I tend to end up adding so much limiting/compression that the 'quality' of the preamp and intermediate chain matters very little in the full mix context. I've used both a 2203 and JTM45 as final stages, the JTM45 isn't even half bad at it. Only downside there is the lack of an FX loop, so I simply drop lower gain preamp valves in (ECC81, ECC82, etc) and it unsurprisingly gives quite the Bassman vibe. Food for thought, appreciated.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Really, that close, right at the grill?

Use your own judgment…I trust you.

I’m at work though…this is what I can do…

 

[PelliX]

Halfway between an absolute eye sore and a cute (now retro) look; the tuck n roll Kustoms... hehe. The man who made them 'acceptable' to me would still be John Fogerty...

....back on topic though; yup, OK - close and personal at the grill. Gotcha. Very nice!

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Halfway between an absolute eye sore and a cute (now retro) look; the tuck n roll Kustoms... hehe. The man who made them 'acceptable' to me would still be John Fogerty...

....back on topic though; yup, OK - close and personal at the grill. Gotcha. Very nice!

One note(no pun)…that pic was the first time I had ever used the 421(upper mic) on a bass cab….it did not finish the session in that position…it was further off the dust cap, backed of a little bit, and off axis(slightly towards the center about 10° off where it is in the pic above) iirc.
The 421 is not my favorite bass cab mic, but I was/am determined to learn it.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

Taking a moment on “compression”.

For clarity, when I talk about compression in the context of a channel strip, in front of an amp…that does not infer that I will not use any further compression when mix time rolls around…like the “ducking” that’s sometimes needed to make things fit in a desired manner. I use it occasionally, but often I feel lazy…so…
I may, or may not, further compress the bass bus when mixing.

I know…but why would you do that you _______?
Because…I have a healthy respect for commitment, but little faith in my decision on performance/tracking tone vs the mechanics necessary for the final mix.

 

[67plexi]

I use my friend Joe for bass and drums my Antelope audio interface has a Ampeg SVT plug in sounds real
I still have a 1970 Ampeg SVT makes my back hurt looking at it but that's what a bass should sound like
also have a Eden World tour 800C 550 watts bridged into a Bag End 4 x 10
monitors QSC CP12 x 2 on tripods and QSC K12.2 x 2 on tripods = 3000 watts RMS volume levels
controlled with a Heritage audio reference audio monitor system bass and drums you can feel in your body.

 

[PelliX]

Hehe, you sure have some nice stacks for it! I was thinking of actually investing in a modest but decent-ish sort of bass stack and another, better bass guitar. Then we sort of found a bass player, but he doesn't particularly go in for session work so that's come back to me again. I really like Stingrays for their sound and scale, yet I haven't come across one that found particularly comfortable to play.

 

[Eric'45]

I don't have a dedicated Bass Amp. I have 3 Methods, and sometimes I use a mix of them.

1. Regular Guitar Amp. The JTM45 is a very suitable Bass Amp. It is a Bass Amp that works great for guitar, too. Guitar Cabs and speakers are the limiting factor when doing this. I feel comfortable using my 4x12 Greenback Cab, as it has enough Headroom for the 30-ish Watts a clean JTM puts out. (I know it's not only the wattage, but also the frequencies that can kill speakers, but I keep the Amp's Volume at 2-3 max in that case).

2. Using the JTM with IRs. I have a crappy Harley Benton Attenuator that I don't use much. But it works as a Load Box with DI out, so I can send the signal of the JTM to my Interface and use a Convolver plus some Bass Cab IRs. Sometimes it's a good sloution to use a mix of the Mic'ed Greenback Cab and the DI Signal plus IR.

3. Going purely Digital (Blasphemous! )
Sometimes I use Plugins inside the DAW. I have a paid Ampeg SVT Plugin, that I got on sale for 30 Euros. I won't pay more for a piece of Software which may be obsolete or unusable in a few years.

 

[Seamus OReally]

I plug direct into the interface and use one of two Ampeg modelers on the computer… a B15N and a VST… and I love it. Tons of control, you can switch amps after the fact, or add virtual pedals. Micing a bass amp is a PITA.

This is a recent recording using my cheap Ibanez bass and the B15N plugin.

Funk in the Trunk

funky one-chord jam, inspired by my new bass and new guitar amp

on.soundcloud.com

 

[PelliX]

Guitar Cabs and speakers are the limiting factor when doing this. I feel comfortable using my 4x12 Greenback Cab, as it has enough Headroom for the 30-ish Watts a clean JTM puts out. (I know it's not only the wattage, but also the frequencies that can kill speakers, but I keep the Amp's Volume at 2-3 max in that case).

You're pretty safe running a JTM45 into a 4x25W cab, the ultra low end response is pretty limited in a GB anyway. I got the best (well, to me) results using a single M65 Creamback, though indeed - I'm not cranking the amp, I generally want squeaky clean or close on bass.

2. Using the JTM with IRs. I have a crappy Harley Benton Attenuator that I don't use much. But it works as a Load Box with DI out, so I can send the signal of the JTM to my Interface and use a Convolver plus some Bass Cab IRs. Sometimes it's a good sloution to use a mix of the Mic'ed Greenback Cab and the DI Signal plus IR.

...actually, the Harley Benton is crap but for that one use case it makes sense; it will likely reduce some of the transients and flatten the signal somewhat. That might actually be beneficial in this scenario. Heck, I've got a PS1 for bench duty, I might try that just for fun!

3. Going purely Digital (Blasphemous! )
Sometimes I use Plugins inside the DAW. I have a paid Ampeg SVT Plugin, that I got on sale for 30 Euros. I won't pay more for a piece of Software which may be obsolete or unusable in a few years.

Agree, exactly why I prefer not to rely on specific plugins. I tried a sim long ago as it happens and it sounded OK, but I wanted something I could play in the room with zero latency, too.

I plug direct into the interface and use one of two Ampeg modelers on the computer… a B15N and a VST… and I love it. Tons of control, you can switch amps after the fact, or add virtual pedals.

Yes, for a while I did that, too; two mics on the cab and snag a DI capture at the same time. It was about then that I decided it was getting way too complex and I had to go back to basics. Enter the SansAmp. Those things have been used for ages in studios and are heard on tons of albums out there, including high profile artists. Why? Because they never deliver the greatest tone, but almost always a usable one. Consistent, reliable, doable. Still, sometimes I have a number where I think to myself that something else would be better. Stealin' by Uriah Heep, for example. One Of These Days or Have A Cigar by Pink Floyd.

Micing a bass amp is a PITA.

So I'm not alone in this, good, haha!

Micing a bass amp is a PITA.