Amp&Pedal test: tube vs SS vs modelling

[Mr Grumpy]

Just as the title suggests...

This thread is for everyone to jump in with their own pictures, experiences, anything.

There's a lot of stuff talked about various amp types, and I just wanna test for myself, my ears, my subjective opinion because I have a Marshall tube amp which does the vintage plexi type of sound, a MG30gfx solid state amp which does the same on it's crunch channel, and a Yamaha THR modelling amp which does the plexi type sound on it's lead channel.



I will try to get similar gritty blues drive on all three, play the same stuff (some basic 70s punk power chords, some 12 bar blues chord progressions and some minor pentatonic leads across the neck) then just explain which I like better and why.

Step 2: I will see how the effects are. The Yamaha has a reverb, a delay and a tremolo. The MG has a reverb, a delay, no tremolo but I'll see if anything else gets close-ish - it has a few other options. The Origin has no effects, but I will put a quite expensive delay/reverb and reverb/tremolo pedal in front (not in the fx loop) as a comparison.

As Don P mentioned, pedals can also be used into the front end of modelling/ss amps, so I'll try that too.



The THR10 was about $300.



The Marshall MG was about $200.

The Marshall Origin tube amp was the price of the other two combined then add a couple hundred more dollars...



The Keeley reverb was about $50 cheaper than the Marshall MG.

The Wampler was about the same price as the Yamaha THR10.

So, the Origin and 2 pedals was more than double the price of the two other amplifiers combined - that just gives a cost/value comparison...



I'll be playing at pretty low volumes, say 60-75db, so this should help the modelling amp and SS amp - at higher volumes, the tube amp should sound a lot better (If the wife goes out shopping then I'll give all three a quick blast at 85db+ to check! ).

Obviously there are many differences, but it's a kinda realistic test too, I hope.

Sp8ctre should be along shortly to do his similar test on cleaner Fender style amps (I hope that's right - sorry if I got this wrong Sp8ctre), so between us, we should be giving some nice comparisons. With other folks joining in (it didn't happen without pictures!), this should be a TR superthread of some distinction!

 

[Mr Grumpy]

OK, preliminary findings after a few hours of too-ing and fro-ing...

The MG30 has 4 channels increasing in gain: clean, crunch, OD1 and OD2, so I stuck it on crunch, and it was noisy and tinny sounding. You know how the DSLs are with the standard speaker, that nasty treble tinny sound, well that's there on the crunch channel along with more noise than I expected at low volumes without much gain - disappointing at first. So, I turned to the clean channel and stuck the gain up and the treble down = much better. But, there was still some nasty residue on high notes. Hmmm, it took a while to find a nice setting; a bit of reverb and a bit of delay seem to tame the treble nastiness which would be great in a band to cut through, but sounded nasty for home practice. Hit the store button and we have a gritty bluesy sound - it sounds fine. But: 1) you have to take care with the guitar volume (I have only used the SG junior for the last few hours to make it simple) to hide the tinny sound; 2) you don't get a variety of tones easily, for example by using your guitar knobs - you've gotta find a nice amp setting then store it; 3) the dry sound without reverb and delay isn't particularly great, imho; 4) the knobs for the effects and how much effect you're putting on, and exactly what effect you have, is all rather finicky, and while you can find nice tones you do so among a lot of mediocre to poor tones.

The other sound I wanted was an Undertones 70s punky tone which isn't particularly distorted, so I thought I'd find it on the crunch channel - couldn't. But, after much searching, an OK punk tone can be found on the OD1 channel with a tiny tad of reverb a bit of delay and a bout a third of the gain with the treble up past noon. It might just be me, but I have the bass nearly maxed for both these sounds.

Onto the Yamaha THR10, and the bluesy OD sound I wanted was better than I remembered it being; bass up quite a lot, treble down a tad and some delay and reverb. It sounds better than the MD does. This amp is more sensitive to the guitar's volume and tone, so I had the tone up higher than I did on the MG and the volume around 7ish. To get the punkier tone, I simply turned the guitar's volume knob upto 9-to-10. It sounded better than the MG.

Onto the Origin tube amp - it's already set to sound like an Origin tube amp..., so nothing to change. The other two amps sounded similar-ish to the Origin for the bluesy OD, with the Yamaha being much closer in tone. I was just playing at 60db, so not loud, and the Origin kinda needed the compressor to hide my sloppy playing (the other two just don't show the dynamics anywhere near as well although the Yamaha does show some dynamics with regard to hard or soft playing, less so with regard to differentiated string playing and fine touch). For the punkier sound, I just turned the guitar volume up and hit the strings harder (power chord time - some members will be pleased I stood up with the SG, legs apart, to play the undertones stuff...). It sounded good.

Going back to the Yamaha, it sounded quite close for the punkier stuff; surprisingly so; nice.

Going back to the MG, it was a little disappointing on the punkier tones, but maybe I have to search around more and dial it in. The MG does have some ok and a few decent tones, but you gotta search them out, so I will need more time.


Effects.

I don't particularly like the MG effects. They would be fine for a starter amp, and the tap tempo works well, but all around, including the effects, for the Marshall-ish bluesy-ish Plexi-ish tones (and a bit of relatively low gain punk stuff) the Yamaha was clearly better than the MG (The MG has a 10" speaker BTW, but no output, so I can't plug it into the Origin 10" Celestion V-type). Even though at low volume the Yamaha does a good job of getting pretty close to the Origin sounds (except touch dynamics, harmonics, you know, that kinda stuff), the effects were nowhere near the level of the Wampler or the Keeley delay/reverb pedals - although, to be fair to the SS and Modelling amp, I had the two pedals set to plate reverb whereas the Yamaha has spring and hall reverb, the MG has studio (similar to plate in theory? Didn't sound close in this case) and sprint reverb.

The MG is ok, better than starter amps - just need to fiddle around for a while to find the good tones which are hiding in it. It's noisier, much noisier than the other two amps at the same sound level.

The Yamaha is really good, better than I remembered (I didn't think it could do a nice Marshall tone, but it can).


Next step:
- plug the effects into the front end of the other two amps.
- check the Yamaha and MG to see how many good sounds I can find (the MG has 4 presets, one for each channel, while the Yamaha has 5 presets, one for each amp sim - thus, I shoud fill these presets up).

 

[RobV]

I don't know if you know this or not but it's a bit of info on our little 20w Marshalls. You don't Bias them when you switch tubes.....

 

[Tony M.]

Regarding the THR10.
I'm mainly a pedals into a clean amp guy.
But...
I have used the THR10 on a number of small jobs.
(House concerts, tiny chapels, stuff like that.)
When I bring it, I leave the pedals home.
The secret is to actually hook it up to your computer and access
the "hidden treasures" it contains when you program the presets.
(For example, a full featured compressor is hidden in there.)
I have also used it on larger jobs with a mic in front of it and used it
as a "head" by plugging the headphone jack into a powered speaker.
(To prove a point to the "Half stack in a small bar" people.)
With all of these applications I left the pedals home.

The time based effects are that good and the dirt is actually quite acceptable.

No, it does not sound like a $2,000.00 pedal board through a Supro Thunderbolt,
but it's the size of a loaf of Wonder bread and plenty OK at a house concert with
acoustic instruments and no 19,000 watt FOH PA or 7,000 watt monitor system.

Everyone should own one of these.
They are a true bang for the buck bargain.

 

[Dave Sloven]

Really not surprised about the Marshall MG, they have a rep for eness

I found a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo for my nephew, $500, fully serviced with an Eminence speaker installed. They are made in China (like all Peavey amps these days, even the Invective) but every time I've played through it I've found it to be a really good amp, like a 60W version of my monster. The 20W 6505 MH also has a good rep, but they are not as powerful and tend to be more expensive on the second-hand market. I've also liked clips of the Valve King MH, if you see one around cheap they'd be worth considering. I don't think they've sold as well as the 6505 MH.

 

[Inspector #20]

Really not surprised about the Marshall MG, they have a rep for eness

I found a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo for my nephew, $500, fully serviced with an Eminence speaker installed. They are made in China (like all Peavey amps these days, even the Invective) but every time I've played through it I've found it to be a really good amp, like a 60W version of my monster. The 20W 6505 MH also has a good rep, but they are not as powerful and tend to be more expensive on the second-hand market. I've also liked clips of the Valve King MH, if you see one around cheap they'd be worth considering. I don't think they've sold as well as the 6505 MH.

A new Australian word - "e-ness!"

 

[Dave Sloven]

Nah, that's more an Irish word

 

[Mr Grumpy]

A British word too - my life is full of eness...

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Tomorrow is a national holiday, and Thursday is my day off so I'll be giving these three amps a total going over. Lots of play time.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

After quite a lot of playing on these amps:

Marshall MG30 ss is e and outta here - the onboard effects are poor, the amp sounds are average, it is noticeably the worse of the 3. More expensive/better ss amps may do a better job. I ended up not standing this amp, so I didn't try pedals in the front, sorry.

Yamaha THR10 modelling amp is good and is staying. I like the modelling concept (modelling of individual components in the circuit rather than just the overall sound), and if done well should, and does, produce good results. The clean Fender 1 sim is good and takes dirt pedals well too. The crunch AC30 sim 2, lead Plexi sim 3 and modern Mesa sim 5 are all very nice - the plexi sim gets close to the Origin 20 at low volumes. The Yamaha has decent onboard effects (I don't like the hall reverb much...) which are nowhere near good pedals, but are usable and sound good on all the sim settings. Pedals into the front are a mixed bag: my reverb and delays and tremolo didn't sound great, but my fuzz and OD worked well. It's the most versatile amp of the 3 and good value for money. For only a $100 more it is on a different level from the MG. &, at half the price of the Origin, it's more versatile, easier to find good sounds consistently, and sounds good.

The Origin, even at low volumes, sounds better than the others, but really needs 85db+ (which is too loud for apartment use) to start coming alive and put some distance between itself and the Yamaha. Pedals sound good into it, especially delays and reverbs, but dirt pedals need a lot of volume to sound their best; mostly better to use the amps boost pedal. I've found it quite difficult to get the sound shaping I wanted from either the fuzz or the TS, this amp probably needs a treble booster to get a really nice crunch, and it cannot do the tight bottom end modern tone of a Mesa (a DSL would probably get a lot closer; this is quite a low gain amp). The amp is kinda in a strange middle ground when not gunned, neither a fantastic pedal platform nor a gainy amp - it has a very nice clean though, and can get nice bluesy sounds. The tilt knob is really useful for finding different sounds. Some days I love this amp and can't imagine better sounds anywhere, and other days I turn it on excitedly and cannot find a sound I want - ???

Would I buy them again.

The MG: no.
The Yamaha: yes.
The Origin: I'm not sure. But, if I start playing out then I suspect it'll come into its own. Ironically, I'm doing a little set with three friends, and for the type of music we are playing I find the Mesa sim on the Yamaha ideal...

I have used the THR10 on a number of small jobs.

It is a versatile and good sounding amp.

The time based effects are that good and the dirt is actually quite acceptable.

Fully agree.

Everyone should own one of these.

They are under-rated, well maybe not under-rated, but often over-looked - folks who have not tried one may be surprised.

Really not surprised about the Marshall MG, they have a rep for eness

You're right. I've owned two Marshall MG amps, a Vox pathfinder, a Randall KH ss, a Fender Mustang, the Yamaha and the baby Blackstar ss. The MGs are by far the worst of the bunch, a $60 Blackstar or $90 Vox sound much better. I fukin'well hate Marshall MG amps...