Alas! And My Tone Escapes Me:

Tony M. said:
We all are.
Here's how it works.

Your senses take in information, sight, sound, touch, etc.
Your brain takes the information your senses gathered and
constructs an image of everything from what was gathered.
This image is the world as you know it.
This process takes approximately 20 milliseconds.
Everything in your world. Everything you see, hear, feel,
smell, taste, etc. all happened 20 milliseconds ago.

There is no now for us.
There is only 20/1000th of a second ago.
Click to expand...

Tony ----- that IS THE BEST DESCRIPTION OF TIME --- I have ever seen.... thank you does Rolex make a watch with a 20/1000th hand?
 
Good Morning!


I hope all is going well with you ALL today...


Last night, I had a few minutes to chill out and go over some of my eBay sales.


I sold the 490's/PCB out of the SG for $106. I sold the nickel covered 490's/PCB out of the 2017 Gibson Les Paul Tribute for $180. I sold some old ignition coils from a Lamborghini for $50. Some extra Mustang mufflers for $75. Mostly, just cleaning up and making space.


Im ordering up a full set of Tung-Sol tubes for the DSL40C and a brand new 12ax7 for the old Valvestate VS265. That will fix both of those issues.


I need to shield the Stratocaster again and see if I can get rid of the interference. I got a roll of tape on hand, but I'm helping our 19 year old son get his car ready for college in Washington State, so no time for guitars for a while. Besides, the 87 Squire really is just a sentimental item.


The Tone Man harness came for the SG. I'm hoping that with the harness in it, I can sell it for the $800 I paid for it, along with the $130 Gator TSA case. Guess we will have to wait and see and if not, it will become the new student's guitar.


Last night, I had a few minutes to mess around on guitar, so I plugged in the Hellraiser. It amazed me what a good job they did on the construction of that guitar. No nibs on the fret ends...really good neck angle...low action...quiet EMG's...in every way completly superior to even my vintage Gibson's. Kinda made me wonder why I tried to replace it with a Gibson???


What came to me was this...


So many guys I have admired for their tone...Gary Moore, Angus Young...Leslie West...to name but three...all played Gibson's. I think maybe that influenced me a little.


See, I really love their tone...but I have accepted the fact that I don't produce that type of tone naturally. I can mimic it for a recording, but try as I might, that's not me.


My tone is much darker and heavier with lots of gain...almost a bass feel behind it from the EQ...It's likely completely inappropriate for most musical styles, but it keeps coming back, no matter how I try to reject it.


I suppose the source of this tone stems from years of EQ'ing a Stratocaster to try and fill a humbucker's shoes. After almost 30 years, my ear has become trained to this tone and my settings continually deviate back into this tonal realm.


No amount of 50's wiring, hand wound pickups, neck style, fret height or adjustment can filter out this psychological preset...it is ever present.


I think the time has come to simply embrace it.


In the end, I look back on all the headaches I have endured while chasing a certain tone...and for what???


If we break this down into simple mathematical formulas, there is an interesting fact that can be seen. In the simplest of terms, the Schecter C1 Hellraiser has made me more money than any other guitar I have owned, and yet it is completely stock. I've never spent anything on it above the $1,145.00 with case that I paid for it in 2005 - at the height of my work as a session guitarist.

For accuracy in a recording environment, nothing beats the Hellraiser. 100% intonation at 3rd, 7th and 12th Fret....not close or "acceptable" intonation, like I see on Gibson's, but dead-nuts everywhere, and if intonation is off, I hear it, so that's a big deal for me.

In the past 6 months, I have spent more time working on guitars than I have playing them. I have posted thousands of lines of text...much of it meaningless rants...without any clear direction....just more and more tonal tail chasing.


I do see many very cool guitars, and I di enjoy chatting about them, but in the end, I am no great wealth of information, aside from being a conversationalist. In fact, I am beyond basic and quite single-faceted.


I think I will just remain here in my little corner... :)

Now, tone aside, I have come to realize that there are certain physical characteristics that I prefer on a guitar...light weight Mahogany construction, Stratocaster-Style body shape, inline tuning keys, 1-11/16" nut width, 24-3/4" GIBSON SCALE LENGTH, small 6230 fretwire and triple humbuckers sank level with the pickguard....this is likely the guitar I will either commission or build myself, but in the interim, I think it's time to stop throwing money and time at tone... :-)
 
Last edited:
Robert Herndon said:
Im ordering up a full set of Tung-Sol tubes for the DSL40C
Click to expand...

Are you putting all tungsol in v1-v4?

I had some tube issues in my dsl40c, so I've been experimenting.
I ended up putting a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1, V4
I went with a Preferred Series 7025 in V2, V3

I like the tone, but sometimes it's a bit pinchy. I've heard that W/ Tung-Sols, they have a tendency to burn up in the cathode follower position (V3). No idea if that's true, just something someone told me.

I'm thinking of trying all 7025, and seeing what happens. I have minimal experience with tubes, trying to find a base to work with.

I've heard great things about the preferred el34 as well. I'm currently stock.

I may be ordering something this weekend, so I'm just digesting what I've done so far.
 
Bocc69 said:
Are you putting all tungsol in v1-v4?

I had some tube issues in my dsl40c, so I've been experimenting.
I ended up putting a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1, V4
I went with a Preferred Series 7025 in V2, V3

I like the tone, but sometimes it's a bit pinchy. I've heard that W/ Tung-Sols, they have a tendency to burn up in the cathode follower position (V3). No idea if that's true, just something someone told me.

I'm thinking of trying all 7025, and seeing what happens. I have minimal experience with tubes, trying to find a base to work with.

I've heard great things about the preferred el34 as well. I'm currently stock.

I may be ordering something this weekend, so I'm just digesting what I've done so far.
Click to expand...

Interesting!!!

I've never heard that!!!

I always used Marshall tubes. Lately, I been shopping around for some tubes with a good reputation. I keep coming back to JJ and Tung-Sol...

I'm interested in this...and I am thinking about this...

I found a really good deal on some JJ-12AX7's and some Chinese 7025's...
 
Last edited:
Actually, im not suggesting it, LOL!
All kidden aside, I like the set up, but it's not quite IT.

I'm just beginning my journey of learning about tube set up. Typically, I would hit the power and go. But, blowing my v2 gave me the opportunity to start learning.

Im leaning toward putting in a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the V4 as my next experiment. But I'm also going to pick up some more preferred and roll a few.

I'll give it a while for break in, as I like to digest the subtle changes before confusing myself even more.
 
Bocc69 said:
Actually, im not suggesting it, LOL!
All kidden aside, I like the set up, but it's not quite IT.

I'm just beginning my journey of learning about tube set up. Typically, I would hit the power and go. But, blowing my v2 gave me the opportunity to start learning.

Im leaning toward putting in a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in the V4 as my next experiment. But I'm also going to pick up some more preferred and roll a few.

I'll give it a while for break in, as I like to digest the subtle changes before confusing myself even more.
Click to expand...

The 7025's are low noise 12AX7's but with a little less gain and more warmth...
 
Bocc69 said:
Are you putting all tungsol in v1-v4?

I had some tube issues in my dsl40c, so I've been experimenting.
I ended up putting a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1, V4
I went with a Preferred Series 7025 in V2, V3

I like the tone, but sometimes it's a bit pinchy. I've heard that W/ Tung-Sols, they have a tendency to burn up in the cathode follower position (V3). No idea if that's true, just something someone told me.

I'm thinking of trying all 7025, and seeing what happens. I have minimal experience with tubes, trying to find a base to work with.

I've heard great things about the preferred el34 as well. I'm currently stock.

I may be ordering something this weekend, so I'm just digesting what I've done so far.
Click to expand...

How's the tone with the mix of 12AX7/7025???
 
Here's the setup i just ordered up...

(20 Electro-Harmonix EL-34's and (4) Tube Amp Doctor 7025-WA's...
 
I like the mix, but something isn't quite rite and I can't put my finger on it....perhaps a bit bright. I do prefer bit of warmth, which is why I want to try four 7025.

One of my roadblocks, is that I want to get some mileage on the 57's in my less paul to hear what I get. I have to fix the humming first. That's tomorrow's project.

So, I'm going to order a bunch of tubes, and when I'm ready ill have them at hand.
 
Bocc69 said:
I like the mix, but something isn't quite rite and I can't put my finger on it....perhaps a bit bright. I do prefer bit of warmth, which is why I want to try four 7025.

One of my roadblocks, is that I want to get some mileage on the 57's in my less paul to hear what I get. I have to fix the humming first. That's tomorrow's project.

So, I'm going to order a bunch of tubes, and when I'm ready ill have them at hand.
Click to expand...

Definitely the 7025's are quieter and have less floor noise...at the expense of some gain, but my EMG's drive the amp so hard, there isn't any problem with gain...
 
Hi, I noticed a few posts back that Bocc69 mentioned that the Tung Sol (reissue) 12AX7 didn't fare well in the V2 (cathode follower) position of Marshall. This was true a few years back, they would fail after a while & fared even worse in some Vox amps, a couple of Fenders etc as the heater to cathode rating wasn't up to spec. The problem was fixed around 2010 when they upgraded the heater insulation so they are fine now, though if you are unsure use a JJ ECC803S for cathode follower duties. While on the tube subject, a 7025 "was" a military spec, low noise, high gain 12AX7, so a "real" NOS 7025 should have higher voltage gain than a run of the mill 12AX7. While a 12AU7 has the same pin out as a 12AX7 & will work when substituted for, the operating conditions wont be ideal & so it wont perform to its best. A 12AU7 is a fair bit lower gain but higher current tube. If you want a nice sounding lower gain tube, use a 5751. This again was a mil spec extra low noise 12AX7 type but with only about 70% the voltage gain of a 12AX7. It was developed for use in avionics equipment so is also robust. Cheers

Edit; the following are all mil spec ECC82/12AU7's; 5963,, 5814A,, CV491,, CV4032. Each may have been requested for different applications. Cheers
 
Last edited:
ivan H said:
Hi, I noticed a few posts back that Bocc69 mentioned that the Tung Sol (reissue) 12AX7 didn't fare well in the V2 (cathode follower) position of Marshall. This was true a few years back, they would fail after a while & fared even worse in some Vox amps, a couple of Fenders etc as the heater to cathode rating wasn't up to spec. The problem was fixed around 2010 when they upgraded the heater insulation so they are fine now, though if you are unsure use a JJ ECC803S for cathode follower duties. While on the tube subject, a 7025 "was" a military spec, low noise, high gain 12AX7, so a "real" NOS 7025 should have higher voltage gain than a run of the mill 12AX7. While a 12AU7 has the same pin out as a 12AX7 & will work when substituted for, the operating conditions wont be ideal & so it wont perform to its best. A 12AU7 is a fair bit lower gain but higher current tube. If you want a nice sounding lower gain tube, use a 5751. This again was a mil spec extra low noise 12AX7 type but with only about 70% the voltage gain of a 12AX7. It was developed for use in avionics equipment so is also robust. Cheers

Edit; the following are all mil spec ECC82/12AU7's; 5963,, 5814A,, CV491,, CV4032. Each may have been requested for different applications. Cheers
Click to expand...

Great information!!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top