Adventures in P90's, hum and dummy coils

Hackmaster

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I've been tinkering again with a bag of P90's and an old guitar.
Some of you have seen my double cut triple pickup perversion posted elsewhere on this fine forum.
Well now I'll address an issue that I've been dealing with, hum.

The pickups that are in the guitar were stock Gibson P90s.
I found another P90 that when added in with the stock pickups, squelched most of the hum.
I added that one to the middle position, and wired it up with the neck & bridge pickups going thru the 3 way switch to one volume & tone pot, and the middle pickup to the other volume & tone pot.

Now with all three pickups on, everything was pretty quiet. The problem surfaced when I would turn down the middle or the neck & bridge set, the hum would increase as the pickup was turned down.
This is fine if you want all three pickups on all the way all the time, or combinations of neck & middle or bridge & middle on all the time.
If you turned both volumes down the same amount, the hum would also be squelched.
Gettin' complicated now.

This would not do...

So I did some research and armed my self with just enough information to make me dangerous and reckless.
The article that I referred to...
Dummy Pickup Coils for Single Coil Powered Guitars

So utilizing one of the pickups of a Precision Bass set,
DSC06466_zps9w8exwi6.jpg


I removed the plastic cover, ripped off the magnet and checked to make sure that the
wind direction was correct to achieve the hum canceling. Bingo! Quiet as a church mouse.
So I took this hapless little pickup and ground the square edges off one end and covered both sides with epoxy.
DSC06468_zpsstiavvvh.jpg

Then put a shrink wrap sleeve over the whole thing.
DSC06470_zpsipd26n6z.jpg

I hooked it up to engage with a push pull pot so that I would reap the most benefit from the addition.
DSC06475_zpspje2sfm7.jpg

It adds the coil between the output going to the jack and ground.
Everything fits nicely in the corner of the control cavity.
DSC06476_zpsf60l0rt7.jpg

Now your probably thinking how is that idiot going to keep that coil from flopping around in that control
cavity? The cavity was getting pretty crowded now, I thought about a piece of stiff foam, but that would have
to be cut to the proper shape & thickness to work well.
So I searched for my answer from above... No I'm not getting religious on everyone.
Remember the plastic cover originally on the donor pickup?
It makes a good source of stock to make a nifty little angle bracket out of
DSC06471_zpskpsvmwnb.jpg

that got epoxied to the underside of the cavity cover.
DSC06479_zpsvrblukto.jpg

The cover fits on with no interference and no one sees anything from the outside of the guitar.
DSC06480_zpswekterf2.jpg

Now for a proper daylight picture of the conversion...
DSC06485_zpsldm4qwz1.jpg

I just may add it direct so that the dummy coil is on all the time, but I thought the push pull would give me
a chance to compare the tone with and without the addition of the dummy coil.

If any of our more knowledgeable wiring and tone gurus would like to comment pro or con on this little
addition, I'd love to know your thoughts. Feel free to let me have it with both barrels.:D
 
I've been tinkering again with a bag of P90's and an old guitar.
Some of you have seen my double cut triple pickup perversion posted elsewhere on this fine forum.
Well now I'll address an issue that I've been dealing with, hum.

The pickups that are in the guitar were stock Gibson P90s.
I found another P90 that when added in with the stock pickups, squelched most of the hum.
I added that one to the middle position, and wired it up with the neck & bridge pickups going thru the 3 way switch to one volume & tone pot, and the middle pickup to the other volume & tone pot.

Now with all three pickups on, everything was pretty quiet. The problem surfaced when I would turn down the middle or the neck & bridge set, the hum would increase as the pickup was turned down.
This is fine if you want all three pickups on all the way all the time, or combinations of neck & middle or bridge & middle on all the time.
If you turned both volumes down the same amount, the hum would also be squelched.
Gettin' complicated now.

This would not do...

So I did some research and armed my self with just enough information to make me dangerous and reckless.
The article that I referred to...
Dummy Pickup Coils for Single Coil Powered Guitars

So utilizing one of the pickups of a Precision Bass set,
DSC06466_zps9w8exwi6.jpg


I removed the plastic cover, ripped off the magnet and checked to make sure that the
wind direction was correct to achieve the hum canceling. Bingo! Quiet as a church mouse.
So I took this hapless little pickup and ground the square edges off one end and covered both sides with epoxy.
DSC06468_zpsstiavvvh.jpg

Then put a shrink wrap sleeve over the whole thing.
DSC06470_zpsipd26n6z.jpg

I hooked it up to engage with a push pull pot so that I would reap the most benefit from the addition.
DSC06475_zpspje2sfm7.jpg

It takes adds the coil between the output going to the jack and ground.
Everything fits nicely in the corner of the control cavity.
DSC06476_zpsf60l0rt7.jpg

Now your probably thinking how is that idiot going to keep that coil from flopping around in that control
cavity? The cavity was getting pretty crowded now, I thought about a piece of stiff foam, but that would have
to be cut to the proper shape & thickness to work well.
So I searched for my answer from above... No I'm not getting religious on everyone.
Remember the plastic cover originally on the donor pickup?
It makes a good source of stock to make a nifty little angle bracket out of
DSC06471_zpskpsvmwnb.jpg

that got epoxied to the underside of the cavity cover.
DSC06479_zpsvrblukto.jpg

The cover fits on with no interference and no one sees anything from the outside of the guitar.
DSC06480_zpswekterf2.jpg

Now for a proper daylight picture of the conversion...
DSC06485_zpsldm4qwz1.jpg

I just may add it direct so that the dummy coil is on all the time, but I thought the push pull would give me
a chance to compare the tone with and without the addition of the dummy coil.

If any of our more knowledgeable wiring and tone gurus would like to comment pro or con on this little
addition, I'd love to know your thoughts. Feel free to let me have it with both barrels.:D

I love it! GREAT job!
 
this impresses the site outta me -----so tidy---
DSC06476_zpsf60l0rt7.jpg
Your way to kind sir. It's a bunch or recycled pots and all. Had to swap one of the tone pots with a new one.
It was acting stupid, cutting in & out.
The blue & yellow tape was to tell me which pickup did what. Blue & yellow were bridge & neck, unmarked was middle.
All that $#it starts to look the same with the braided shield....
 
That is some good R & D right there. Impressive, & a neat installation too. Being new to P90's, I've only recently found out just how much they can hum, especially when using high gain. I've been using the pedal tuners muted out as a bandaid fix, but this looks to be the way to go. I'm sure I've got some cheap, bar magnet type single coils somewhere. Thanks for sharing this. Cheers
 
Really good work, Hackmaster - like Adrian, I'm very impressed.

It seems to be a similar (the same) idea as this: Epiphone Blueshawk Deluxe

"Inside the body there's a hum-cancelling "dummy" coil mounted between the pickups to provide hum reduction when the neck or bridge pickups are used alone."

Epiphone have used this on a couple of different guitars recently.

N_050115C0.jpg


LEERDpop.jpg

LEERD5.jpg


"In between the two pickups under the pickguard is a "Dummy Coil" that cancels the “hum” when in single-coil mode."
Epiphone Ltd. Ed. Lee Malia RD Custom Artisan Outfit
 
Thanks everyone, It really works well.
Being on the push pull I can kick it on or out at will.
Do I notice a tone loss with it engaged? Yes, a minor reduction in volume, but the guitar is as quiet as a humbucker while the coil
is engaged. All the 60hz hum is gone.
It's freaking magic. Every pickup combination and all positions alone are hum free. I think it works better than I even hoped it would.

It's hard to tell how much signal is lost. The article said you'd loose some top end. If that's the case, with three P90's I can spare
a bit of sparkle. My next experiment with this setup will include the addition of a 150k resistor & .001uf cap across the input & output
lugs of each volume pot as a treble bleed. Easy enough to try with jumpers, If It helps I'll solder em in, if not I'm out nothing for trying.
 
Really good work, Hackmaster - like Adrian, I'm very impressed.

It seems to be a similar (the same) idea as this: Epiphone Blueshawk Deluxe

"Inside the body there's a hum-cancelling "dummy" coil mounted between the pickups to provide hum reduction when the neck or bridge pickups are used alone."

Epiphone have used this on a couple of different guitars recently.

N_050115C0.jpg


LEERDpop.jpg

LEERD5.jpg


"In between the two pickups under the pickguard is a "Dummy Coil" that cancels the “hum” when in single-coil mode."
Epiphone Ltd. Ed. Lee Malia RD Custom Artisan Outfit
Although I am no fan of the Explorer, I like that Lee Malia Epi!
 
I have given up on the treble bleeds, the only change that I noticed was I picked up all kinds of hum with the jumper wires.
I tried. Gonna live with what I have for a while. It works. The ability to switch the coil on and off will give me enough options to keep me
amused for a while.
 
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