8" x mile²

Thatbastarddon said:
I’m at lunch and pressed for time…but…the moon pulls at the oceans (and large bodies of water etc)…that is what creates the tidal bulge that varies curvature over oceans.

Atmospheric refraction can have effect on what is visible over the horizon.
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OK, I get the fact that the moon's gravity can raise the tides. Point given. So if the moon's gravity raises the sea level, then there should be more of an observable curve, not less. So this brings back my question of why I can see a boat that is supposed to be beyond the curve of the Earth. A tidal pull from the moon should add more height to the curve making it that much harder to see with a larger water barrier between my camera and the boat 25 miles away. I should not be able to see any of the boat, let alone where it sits in the water. However the sea level appears to be flat (discounting the waves). Regarding atmospheric refraction, I had a clear view of the boat with the only visibility hindrance being the overcast skies and low hanging fog which did obstruct the oil derrick some, but still remained visible while zooming out and zooming in.
 
LiveeviL2000 said:
WELCOME TO TSR (The Science Rooms)!

Gravitational lensing can effect how far you see, but I dont know by how much. I was a chemistry major I skipped on optical physics.
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What is gravitational lensing?



Image result for gravitational lensing


As the light emitted by distant galaxies passes by massive objects in the universe, the gravitational pull from these objects can distort or bend the light. This is called gravitational lensing. However I was looking only 25 miles away, not light years away.
 
WavMixer said:
No politics here, just a science reality check. No red or blue states mentioned here, however a red pill or blue pill might be an appropriate decision to make.
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I was totally joking. I really didn't see this as politics in any way, but I thought the concept of science politics was quite amusing.

I'll keep it more serious in the thread going forward.
 
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WavMixer said:
Correct, 8" x mile² is the trigonometry formula for the curvature of the earth as told to us by science. So that poses a question. If I am at the beach looking out to the water and an oil rig 25 miles out to see, there should be over 400 feet of observable curvature. Let's do the math.

25 miles x 25 = 625
625 x 8" = 5,000"
5,000" ÷ 12 = 416.666'

According to science there should be over 416 feet of curvature between the shore where I took the video below and to oil rig in the distance 25 miles from where I shot this footage 2 weeks ago at Sunset Beach near Huntington Beach. If there is indeed over 400 feet of curvature, why can we see this boat?

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Admittedly I know nothing on the subject, but based on the responses a lot other people do. The only immediate thoughts I have are questions - how do you calculate the actual distance to the boat and how have you compensated for the height of the camera?
 
gball said:
Admittedly I know nothing on the subject, but based on the responses a lot other people do. The only immediate thoughts I have are questions - how do you calculate the actual distance to the boat and how have you compensated for the height of the camera?
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Yea, you couldn't see 25 miles unless you were elevated 400 feet.

Also, that's the other way around as well.
 
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gball said:
Admittedly I know nothing on the subject, but based on the responses a lot other people do. The only immediate thoughts I have are questions - how do you calculate the actual distance to the boat and how have you compensated for the height of the camera?
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Excellent questions! I was visiting a friend who lives at the beach and this was shot in his back yard. The tripod was 3' off the ground and roughly 10' above sea level this would have placed the camera roughly 13' above sea level. So let's be generous and say that my camera was 16' above sea level. 25 miles should have 416' curvature minus 16' camera height still leaves 400' of missing curvature.

If you stop the video at 0:11 you can see Catalina island to the right with a low hanging haze covering the bottom, but the hills on the island do appear above the haze. The owner of the property told me that Catalina is 25 miles away and the oil rig is just a bit further out than Catalina, so 25 miles to the boat was a conservative estimate and likely to be even further out.
 
WavMixer said:
What is gravitational lensing?



Image result for gravitational lensing


As the light emitted by distant galaxies passes by massive objects in the universe, the gravitational pull from these objects can distort or bend the light. This is called gravitational lensing. However I was looking only 25 miles away, not light years away.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I skipped that physics topic.

I always thought you could only see a few miles if your view were observing something at equal level before the horizon blocked your vision. The higher you are or the higher the observed object is the further you can see.
My explanation at this point is one or both of the following.
1) you were not at sea level
2) the object you observed was higher than sea level

If you were standing on a beach (ie. dry land) then you are decidedly above sea level, factor in your height to your eye level and the elevation of the land you were standing on plus factor in tidal height.
Also, since the ship is floating it is above water. It also has height to it, how tall was that ship?
 
Sapient said:
Yea, you couldn't see 25 miles unless you were elevated 400 feet.

Also, that's the other way around as well.
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That should indeed be the case following what science has taught me. However you can see by looking at my video, I was not 40' above sea level. The boat in the video is at sea level, I'm sitting roughly 16' above sea level and there should be 400' of ocean curve between my camera and the boat. My question is, why can I see it?
 
WavMixer said:
That should indeed be the case following what science has taught me. However you can see by looking at my video, I was not 40' above sea level. The boat in the video is at sea level, I'm sitting roughly 16' above sea level and there should be 400' of ocean curve between my camera and the boat. My question is, why can I see it?
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I got nuthin'.
I'm sure there is a scientific explanation to your question which is beyond this guitar player's pay grade. My dealings with science on a day to day deal with what chemicals should not be with other chemicals so people dont go BOOM in the workplace.
 
WavMixer said:
That should indeed be the case following what science has taught me. However you can see by looking at my video, I was not 40' above sea level. The boat in the video is at sea level, I'm sitting roughly 16' above sea level and there should be 400' of ocean curve between my camera and the boat. My question is, why can I see it?
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My theory? I'd say because the boat is in reality within 3 miles of you. You're making the boat's distance variable 25 and I don't think it is.
 
LiveeviL2000 said:
Like I said, I skipped that physics topic.

I always thought you could only see a few miles if your view were observing something at equal level before the horizon blocked your vision. The higher you are or the higher the observed object is the further you can see.
My explanation at this point is one or both of the following.
1) you were not at sea level
2) the object you observed was higher than sea level

If you were standing on a beach (ie. dry land) then you are decidedly above sea level, factor in your height to your eye level and the elevation of the land you were standing on plus factor in tidal height.
Also, since the ship is floating it is above water. It also has height to it, how tall was that ship?
Click to expand...
True the human eye can see only to the vanishing point. This is called perspective. The farther you look the smaller things appear until they reach the vanishing point. See image below:

understanding-vanishing-points-2.jpg


Although the road is the same width, it appears to get smaller the farther down the road you look. The boat in the video is indeed partially in the water and partially out of the water, that just the nature of the way boats float in the water. I honestly have no knowledge of the actual height of the boat, however it appears to be a smaller craft capable of hauling several passengers, but definitely not a ship. Regardless of how tall the ship is, you can still see where the hull meets the water line and actually see it bobbing up and down within the water.
 
If you plug your height, in your case 16, into this you get the distance to the horizon in miles. Haven't checked it against your formula.

1.22459√h​

 
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