Buffered pedals

RVA

Ambassador
I would be curious to know everyone's current thoughts on the following topic:

How does a buffered, as opposed to a true bypass, pedal affect a guitar's tone?

Please answer without Google and do not post an article. I am more interested currently held beliefs rather than research materials.

Personally, I do not think I ever really asked myself this question until 30 minutes ago. I did not have an adequate answer, and after some research, I still don't.
 
Last edited:
okay, here ya go:

What a buffered pedal does IMHO is to compensate for line loss.

It's as simple as that. Many of us have learned (the hard way) to keep cable runs short.
Many have NOT!. So for those poor schmoes, the buffered pedal saves their bacon.

If a guy has a guitar with a twenty foot (6m) cable, and he plugs it into a paddle board with who
knows how many miles of wires, and then he plugs that paddle board into a line or two running
to his stage amp and the mixing board, there's a lot of cable between his pick attack and the main
speakers voice coils.

But if the first pedal in his signal chain is a Boss TU-3 tuner, his signal is buffered from there and he
suffers no line loss. (or very little) AFAIK, all Boss pedals are buffered. It's a really good idea.

If not, then he may kick one of his "true bypass" pedals for a desired effect and get one thing,
and then kick it again and get true bypass, which means line loss from all those miles of wires.
The concept of true bypass is to keep from "coloring" the signal, but if you have lots of cable of
different brands and different levels of capacitance... then yer true bypass simply translates into
a lot of line loss. This translates into loss of treble.

And maybe modern technology has solved this problem (line loss) in a transparent way such that
persnickety guitarists can't tell if their signal is buffered or not any more.
That's my guess. My guess
is that this is an antique issue that comes up now and then, and starts fights. Line loss and the Quest
for MORE Treble seem like 20th century issues to me... based on loss of high frequencies due to cheap
cables with high capacitance, long cable runs, and primitive tube amps that people worship now. *shrugs.

One place to use a buffered pedal is in front of a bunch of 'true bypass" boutique (read that expensive)
effects. Hence the suggestion of the Boss tuner. Another place to use a buffered pedal is in front to
a bunch of cheapo skunk brand mystery f/x that you know nothing about, except they were cheap and
you lusted for their cool colors and graphix... *grins

The buffered signal makes it through. Someone who keeps his cable runs short and has perfect pitch
and can tune his guitar perfectly under the harshest conditions doesn't need a buffered pedal or a tuner
that removes his signal from the mix while tuning, and/or buffers his signal to make up for poor choices
(read that cheap) of cables.

Anyway, that's the way I understand it. You told us not to post links to anything but I'm going to defy
you and do it anyway. You could click on this link and read the article, OR NOT! ...as you wish.

Why and When to Use a Guitar Buffer Pedal and why do I care for guitar effects pedals?

Or: you could simply google "Line Loss + guitar effects" and find a lot more articles and opinions
OR: you could simply wait for others on this excellent forum to voice their opinions. Your call...
 
okay, here ya go:
The concept of true bypass is to keep from "coloring" the signal,

And maybe modern technology has solved this problem (line loss) in a transparent way such that
persnickety guitarists can't tell if their signal is buffered or not any more.
That's my guess. My guess
is that this is an antique issue that comes up now and then, and starts fights. Line loss and the Quest
for MORE Treble seem like 20th century issues to me... based on loss of high frequencies due to cheap
cables with high capacitance, long cable runs, and primitive tube amps that people worship now. *shrugs.

Thank you for the thoughtful response, and I agree with everything you said, but I highlight the above quoted portion. My thought was that everyone says buffers color their tone, but nobody says how. My supposition is that how your tone is colored depends on the buffer. If that is true, I wonder why I never hear that "the X pedal buffer does this" and "the Y pedal buffer does that". Instead , all you hear is

1 - "I need true bypass" and
2- I decided it is time for a buffer

with no analysis in between.

I have not clicked the link yet, but I will, thanks.
 
If I'm not mistaken, with a true bypass, the signal will go thru the pedal with no power if it's in the "bypass" position. Buffered means that the pedal has to have power always available whether on or off. The signal's impedance is always being massaged or colored. Some fuzz, overdrive, distortion, and boost pedals behave very differently after a buffered pedal. Especially if the pedals are germanium based.
 
If I'm not mistaken, with a true bypass, the signal will go thru the pedal with no power if it's in the "bypass" position. Buffered means that the pedal has to have power always available whether on or off. The signal's impedance is always being massaged or colored. Some fuzz, overdrive, distortion, and boost pedals behave very differently after a buffered pedal. Especially if the pedals are germanium based.
I agree with all of this too, except no one seems to knob how they are massaged or colored, they just seem to embrace this assumption.
 
Im going out on a limb with my less than qualified education, but a buffered circuit is massaged with transistors and frequency altering caps and resistors to relay the signal thru the circuit of the pedal.
 
Im going out on a limb with my less than qualified education, but a buffered circuit is massaged with transistors and frequency altering caps and resistors to relay the signal thru the circuit of the pedal.
It appears that everyone knows that impedence causes high end loss, resulting from long cabling and lots of pedals in a daisy chain. A buffer is known to restore high end loss. So the unanswered question remains...what about a guitar's tone is negatively affected by a buffered pedal? We already know that buffers reduce line noise and restore high end, but what part of tone do they hurt??
 
I have 3 little pedalboards.
2 of them have all true bypass pedals in them.
Those 2 have no buffer and sound fine.
The 3rd one has a mini Cry Baby in Position 2.
When the wah was not in use the board sounded a little meh.
I put a buffered tuner in position 1 and the board got all it's sparkle back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RVA
Buffers are a good idea. The main things they give you are consistency and repeatability. When you run a guitar through a board and then through a length of cable to an amp, you have all sorts of losses and capacitances piling up, and the worst of them is that final cable. All you need is one buffer somewhere on that pedal board. For maximum stability it should be the first - like a Boss tuner. If you don't like the way it (possibly?) affects the sound of subsequent pedals, make it the last pedal, just taking care of the amp cable. I'd recommend taking the time and effort to make it the first box, then adjusting all the others to your preference, knowing that the sound will always stay that way from then on.

There is absolutely nothing to be gained from having all pedals buffered. Of course, they should all offer the option with a switch - it would not add a great deal to the cost.
 
We already know that buffers reduce line noise and restore high end, but what part of tone do they hurt??
They don't "hurt"; they enhance and keep the signal more consistent as DonP stated. However, there are some that prefer some high end loss for various reasons. Maybe in that case a buffered pedal can be considered a "hurt".

My Peterson tuner pedal has the option to activate its buffer circuit. I always leave it off.

As far as describing the effect of some dirt pedals behaving differently after a buffered pedal: the tone becomes more shrill and thin. Harsh, is another word I'll use.
 
I dont know about this question - but something related:
when I plug first into or use only the GE Fuzz Face I built I lose a LOT of signal and have to turn the level and gain upwards of around 3:00 or dimed to get back to or above unity.

If I put the GE FF after my Dano Daddy Overdrive - no loss; its freakin loud and fuzzy.
This is with only the GE FF engaged, Daddy O' is off.
I may have wired it wrong; the footswitch is supposed to bypass it when off but when the batt dies it doesn't pass through at all.

I dont know which pedals are buffered or not.
i have buffered aspirin; that I am sure of.
 
They don't "hurt"; they enhance and keep the signal more consistent as DonP stated. However, there are some that prefer some high end loss for various reasons. Maybe in that case a buffered pedal can be considered a "hurt".

My Peterson tuner pedal has the option to activate its buffer circuit. I always leave it off.

As far as describing the effect of some dirt pedals behaving differently after a buffered pedal: the tone becomes more shrill and thin. Harsh, is another word I'll use.
I think this is right. Frankly, I was challenging my own ingrained thought that everyone should want a true bypass pedal when available, planted there by advertising. When I asked myself why I DON'T want a buffered pedal, I had no answer.
 
When I asked myself why I DON'T want a buffered pedal, I had no answer.
Do guitar gearheads usually ask this question counselor?
Why do I don't want a P90 Goldtop?
Crickets.
See?


You have to use that Big brain a lot so I can see you charging at those windmills......
 
Do guitar gearheads usually ask this question counselor?
Why do I don't want a P90 Goldtop?
Crickets.
See?


You have to use that Big brain a lot so I can see you charging at those windmills......
How about, "Why should I chose a true bypass pedal, given the option of bypass or buffered?"
 
20m42p.jpg


Good point Ray, I'm always acting the fool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RVA
Back
Top