This is Why I'm So Happy This Forum Was Created...
- Thread starter Sp8ctre
- Start date
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
Well, this issue is one for the administrators of this site to decide. (NOT ME... I was simply posting my harsh opinion also)
Discussion of anything ought to be free, I'll go along with that.
Also, if we have a zero tolerance policy toward fake brand name guitars, we can help to educate the unwary.
I did say in my post that I have nothing against replicas and inexpensive copies of high quality guitars.
But the truth is: Putting a Gibson label on a guitar not made by Gibson is criminal activity. It is a lie. In the USA, it's illegal.
And the only reason to do it is to fool someone into paying more for the fraud than it's worth. And keeping the money, no matter
how much hardship and suffering that causes to the innocent or ignorant victim.
If you own one, I dare you to sand the bogus Gibson label off it. That removes the criminality, and the potential for scam
and then you have a guitar that is a copy of a famous one. If the quality is good, then you can play it and hold your head up.
Sand the Gibson name off, and your guitar is no longer a lie... no longer something to be ashamed of.
And it could not be used to swindle someone else. That part is important. To me anyway. Put a pirate decal on it.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I have no power over anyone. The very idea of the fake brand name guitar makes me
angry even so. If the consensus on this forum disagrees with my opinion, I'll shut up.
As a matter of fact, I'll shut up now. Others can discuss it (if they wish), and the community can make its wishes known.
I've expressed my feelings as best I know how. Let it be.
OP
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
Thought I would post this tidbit of information...it's quite interesting for those who don't know.
The original Slash Appetite for Destruction (AFD) guitar was a Fake with full Gibson logo and badging. It was made by luthier Kris Derrig and was given to Slash for the sessions because he could not afford a 59 burst or any Gibson LP for that matter...at the time the band was heavily into drugs and were selling equipment for drug money. After GNR became famous Gibson cashed in by making the AFD signature model being fully aware the guitar Slash used was a Fake. So Gibson made and sold many copies of a Fake Gibson Guitar...
Excerpt from Premier Guitar...
The Reality of Replicas
Undoubtedly, major guitar manufacturers like Gibson, Fender, and Ibanez view any instrument produced by an unofficial source to be counterfeit. And legally that’s certainly true. But the handmade replica culture is not the same thing as some unsuspecting musician getting ripped off. Instead, all parties involved (except the major companies) agree that this can be an honorable transaction among consenting adults—one that involves high-quality instruments.
“Keep in mind that a guitar builder is very similar to an artist,” says Roman Rist. “For an artist to pull off a convincing Picasso means he has arrived. It is not about passing off a fake. Rather, it’s a way of saying ‘Hey, this is my business card. If I can do this, I can do just about anything.’”
Some replica builders who did not want to be identified in this story even have relationships with the companies they’re copying. They might do custom work for those manufacturers or help out in a pinch. Replicas are frequently of such stellar quality that they command high prices on the vintage market to this day.
“The last nice Max-made Les Paul that I know of changed hands for $45,000,” says Howie Hubberman. Baranet himself won’t confirm this, but when offered a range of $35,000 to $50,000, he says, “They’ve resold much higher than that.”
Ironically, some replica builders are so respected that other people copy their work.
“There are more forgeries of my stuff than my replicas of the corporate
My question is why do some think the high $$$$ replicas with the Original Manufacturer logo ie FAKE are OK and a Chinese guitar is not? Both can be sold off to an unsuspecting buyer as the Real Deal by unscrupulous sellers....
The original Slash Appetite for Destruction (AFD) guitar was a Fake with full Gibson logo and badging. It was made by luthier Kris Derrig and was given to Slash for the sessions because he could not afford a 59 burst or any Gibson LP for that matter...at the time the band was heavily into drugs and were selling equipment for drug money. After GNR became famous Gibson cashed in by making the AFD signature model being fully aware the guitar Slash used was a Fake. So Gibson made and sold many copies of a Fake Gibson Guitar...
Excerpt from Premier Guitar...
The Reality of Replicas
Undoubtedly, major guitar manufacturers like Gibson, Fender, and Ibanez view any instrument produced by an unofficial source to be counterfeit. And legally that’s certainly true. But the handmade replica culture is not the same thing as some unsuspecting musician getting ripped off. Instead, all parties involved (except the major companies) agree that this can be an honorable transaction among consenting adults—one that involves high-quality instruments.
“Keep in mind that a guitar builder is very similar to an artist,” says Roman Rist. “For an artist to pull off a convincing Picasso means he has arrived. It is not about passing off a fake. Rather, it’s a way of saying ‘Hey, this is my business card. If I can do this, I can do just about anything.’”
Some replica builders who did not want to be identified in this story even have relationships with the companies they’re copying. They might do custom work for those manufacturers or help out in a pinch. Replicas are frequently of such stellar quality that they command high prices on the vintage market to this day.
“The last nice Max-made Les Paul that I know of changed hands for $45,000,” says Howie Hubberman. Baranet himself won’t confirm this, but when offered a range of $35,000 to $50,000, he says, “They’ve resold much higher than that.”
Ironically, some replica builders are so respected that other people copy their work.
“There are more forgeries of my stuff than my replicas of the corporate
My question is why do some think the high $$$$ replicas with the Original Manufacturer logo ie FAKE are OK and a Chinese guitar is not? Both can be sold off to an unsuspecting buyer as the Real Deal by unscrupulous sellers....
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gasket
Ambassador of the Guitarded
If I upset some ... so be it.
This thread should be called "Proverbs 6:11", look it up.
I'll save you the time,
"As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly".
Every forum, over and over again, round and round.
I'm new to this guitar stuff, how much like Groundhog Day must this be for the real musicians out there.
This thread should be called "Proverbs 6:11", look it up.
I'll save you the time,
"As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly".
Every forum, over and over again, round and round.
I'm new to this guitar stuff, how much like Groundhog Day must this be for the real musicians out there.
OP
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
If I upset some ... so be it.
This thread should be called "Proverbs 6:11", look it up.
I'll save you the time,
"As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly".
Every forum, over and over again, round and round.
I'm new to this guitar stuff, how much like Groundhog Day must this be for the real musicians out there.
Did I miss something? Who became upset?
gasket
Ambassador of the Guitarded
I said
"If I upset some ..."
that's if, as in after this comment from a new boy sick of the round and round and round and ...
RVA
Ambassador
Legal hat on
--------
Please note the following:
It is the intention of this forum to promote free speech in all its forms to the extent that it complies with all applicable laws and the overall goals of this forum of creating a friendly environment in which to discuss the pursuit of tone.
Idly discussing the fact that copyright infrinfing guitars are sold by many and owned by many is an intellectual debate and is OK. Admitting you have purchased a copyright infringing item from a third party which was not facilitated by this forum, either directly or indirectly, will not be censured, but be advised that the forum owners and staff will comply with all legal obligations to report such activity and otherwise intend on fully complying with authorities if contacted. Facilitating the sale, trade or transfer of copyright infringing material on this forum, either directly or indirectly, is strictly prohibited and any such posts will be deleted. Further, the ownership and staff may choose to immediately ban any member facilitating the sale, trade of transfer of copyrighted material without notice to that member.
Thank you.
--------
Legal hat off
--------
Please note the following:
It is the intention of this forum to promote free speech in all its forms to the extent that it complies with all applicable laws and the overall goals of this forum of creating a friendly environment in which to discuss the pursuit of tone.
Idly discussing the fact that copyright infrinfing guitars are sold by many and owned by many is an intellectual debate and is OK. Admitting you have purchased a copyright infringing item from a third party which was not facilitated by this forum, either directly or indirectly, will not be censured, but be advised that the forum owners and staff will comply with all legal obligations to report such activity and otherwise intend on fully complying with authorities if contacted. Facilitating the sale, trade or transfer of copyright infringing material on this forum, either directly or indirectly, is strictly prohibited and any such posts will be deleted. Further, the ownership and staff may choose to immediately ban any member facilitating the sale, trade of transfer of copyrighted material without notice to that member.
Thank you.
--------
Legal hat off
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Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
fair enough... legal free speech goes on.
and with respect to all.
and with respect to all.
jtcnj
Ambassador of the Crossroad
i didnt comment much here or on the other forum, but the same 2 different issues were in play and mixed into one often, both here and there.
Agree or not or whatever, the Discussion about budget Brand versions of the expensive and whether they are good playing guitars is a good debate topic.
The discussion of Chibson Counterfeits sold and fully intending to impersonate the genuine article and how one views all that is also a good debate topic.
but in both the threads these two very different issues got mixed together without some of the participants realizing it....
and it becomes Abbot and Costello - Who's on First.
i'm not offering an opinion on either issue, just pointing out the observation that well, Who's on First.
Agree or not or whatever, the Discussion about budget Brand versions of the expensive and whether they are good playing guitars is a good debate topic.
The discussion of Chibson Counterfeits sold and fully intending to impersonate the genuine article and how one views all that is also a good debate topic.
but in both the threads these two very different issues got mixed together without some of the participants realizing it....
and it becomes Abbot and Costello - Who's on First.
i'm not offering an opinion on either issue, just pointing out the observation that well, Who's on First.
Tony M.
Ambassador
Of course it would have to be reported because:
Legal question incoming. Put your hat back on for a minute.
If the sale, trade or transfer of counterfeit anything were facilitated by this forum
and "those in charge" failed to report it or otherwise condoned it under the guise
of free speech or something like that would that make "those in charge" in some
way accessories to the violations taking place?
Yes? No? Maybe?
Legal question incoming. Put your hat back on for a minute.
If the sale, trade or transfer of counterfeit anything were facilitated by this forum
and "those in charge" failed to report it or otherwise condoned it under the guise
of free speech or something like that would that make "those in charge" in some
way accessories to the violations taking place?
Yes? No? Maybe?
RVA
Ambassador
Hat on
--------
The sale, transfer or trade of items on this forum is strictly prohibited and will meet with the appropriate action by the ownership and staff, including removal of the offending post and possibly banning the offending member without further notice. If a member discloses their ownership of a copyrighted item that was not obtained via this forum, wither directly or indirectly, this will not be censured, but owners and staff will comply with all legal obligations to report such activity and otherwise intend on fully complying with authorities if contacted.
Simply put, if you feel it is a good idea to brag on this forum about your illegal activity which was conducted outside this forum, you do so at your own peril. That said, no illegal activity shall take place here.
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Hat off - after all, it is Friday.
OP
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
Ownership of counterfeit goods and the sale of such items are very different things.
Been many many years since that happened to me...now I'm just to damn tired...
Maybe we should have LEGAL hats made......
Been many many years since that happened to me...now I'm just to damn tired...
B
Biddlin
Guest
The issue of "counterfeits" is thorny for me. I see a guitar that says Fender on the headstock, I want it to be a Fender. If I buy a new Stratocaster for $199, I'm smart enough to know it's a counterfeit. On the other hand, I see the real workmanship that goes into to some of these and think of the person trying to support their family on less than I spend on coffee and I can't begrudge them the little dough they get. We also need to distinguish these makers from the "forgers" who buy a new $900 Les Paul and turn it into a 54, to sell for beaucoup thousands on Ebay. I hope we're all grown up enough to discuss just about anything, but I hope for a lot unlikely crap.
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade