Red Light Cameras

mcblink

mcblink

Ambassador of Riffs & Spliffs
washingtonstatestandard.com

New Washington law will allow traffic cameras on more city streets and county roads • Washington State Standard

Washington wants drivers to slow down. A new law will allow traffic cameras to be deployed on more city streets and county roads.
washingtonstatestandard.com washingtonstatestandard.com


How do you all feel about these things?
They're not new here by any means, but recently they've made some changes to the "law"

I say "law" because evidently they don't know how that works, and neither do the citizens.

I've had a couple of these "tickets" before, but they never got a single penny out of me. Here's why:

1. These cameras are owned and operated by private company. The company leases the cameras to the police department. This is problematic on 2 levels, first, the companies do not have any legal authority to issue citations, second, the money these cameras generate doesn't go to the police department, city or county, it goes to the company that provides the cameras. For this reason, they cannot be enforced because a private company doesn't have any authority in the first place.

2. A photograph of a vehicle in an intersection isn't proof of anything at all. There's no way of knowing who is operating the vehicle. Last time I checked, the burden of proof lies on them, NOT me, in this country.

3. The lies. Once you have had a photo of your vehicle taken, you'll likely get a letter in the main containing threatening language. These are lies. Our legal/justice system in this nation may not be perfect by any means, but these people rely on your stupidity and ignorance of the law to steal your dollars. If you openly admit to, and send money, then it's perfectly legal. Nothing against the law about lying. Police are routinely trained to lie. They lie about the reason they pulled you over, they lie about what they don't smell in your car, and they lie about various reasons for probable cause. Why would a company providing cameras for police be honest? Explain why the lights with cameras on them have shortened times for the yellow lights? But only the lights with cameras, and not the others?


The article even says that the law states that no driver or occupant photos are allowed.
Explain to me how they can prove who was operating the vehicle if there are no photos of the driver? Oh that's right! They can't! Duh!



I've never paid a single dollar to any of these crooked things. If I'm going to pay for a ticket, then it's going to be because an officer, who I also pay through my taxes to do his job, is doing his job. Not a private company operating cameras.

I've never, not once had any legal recourse against me for this. Even called the courthouse and asked once..

Why?

Because what they're doing to begin with is illegal and unconstitutional, and it relies on the ignorance of the citizens and their own honesty, to operate.

It's because they can't and they know it.
That's why anytime someone wants to challenge one of these in court, it's tossed out.

Don't fall for this garbage.

Today it's red light cameras. What will it be tomorrow?
 
Last edited:
It is purely a revenue collection device. I seem to recall reading some jurisdictions have been removing the devices due to the points you bring up. There is some evidence it increases rear end collisions due people panic stopping early for fear of the camera.

In my region they use cameras for traffic signal control. The cameras detect where cars are at the intersections to trigger whatever signals are appropriate at the time. A fair amount of the stupid think they are ticket generation cameras and stop early out of fear.
 
Last edited:
The PA state government is pretty good about preventing rogue municipalities from creating obvious speed traps purely to raise revenue. PA is the only state that does not allow radar or lidar for local police use. Only state police on state highways are able to use them.
 
One of my older Escort radar detectors had GPS and they provided regularly updated databases with red light camera locations. I was driving on the freeway one day and the thing says “red light camera 500 ft”, then 400 ft, etc. I was like WTF. Then it dawned on me the programmers only took into account lat/long and not ELEVATION. The red light camera was at an intersection just below the freeway.
 
Funny tidbit of info I recently found out. There's an organization called Pig Observer that monitors police activity and is a opponent of any antics and foul play by the police community. They have websites that provide camera viewers of a LOT of public access cameras in real time. My city's police force use the Pig Observers own websites to monitor the street cameras because, as one contact put it, "they made it so d*mn easy to monitor cameras and there's no way our city could make such a great running site."

The cops are monitoring people on the streets through a website that monitors the police on the streets. :D
 
Seamus OReally said:
I'm for them. If I had a nickel for every jackass in Santa Rosa who thought it was their right to run a red light, I'd buy a Porsche Taycan.
Click to expand...
I'm all for increasing safety, as I said above, but not by crooked and dishonest, and often technically illegal means.

Just because other bad drivers ARE bad drivers doesn't give anyone any kind of authority to send me fake ass "fines" for manufacturing "red light runners" by shortened yellow light times and so forth.

Two wrongs don't make a right, right?
 
Ghostman said:
Funny tidbit of info I recently found out. There's an organization called Pig Observer that monitors police activity and is a opponent of any antics and foul play by the police community. They have websites that provide camera viewers of a LOT of public access cameras in real time. My city's police force use the Pig Observers own websites to monitor the street cameras because, as one contact put it, "they made it so d*mn easy to monitor cameras and there's no way our city could make such a great running site."

The cops are monitoring people on the streets through a website that monitors the police on the streets. :D
Click to expand...
I'm going to guess that's possibly because they aren't necessarily allowed to use their own monitor systems, same reason pictures of drivers and occupants aren't allowed from red light cameras.

But I could be very wrong, laws vary between state, county, municipal etc

Private cameras are one thing; a government spying on you is another thing entirely.

Probably some murky waters in this area.
 
Philly started a limited red light camera program. Fines only - no points on your license. Not sure it was implemented more widely. Those of you familiar with Roosevelt Blvd. know it is a dangerous road - one of the roads I recall as part or the program.
 
Ghostman said:
In my town if I had a nickle for time I saw someone run a red light, I'd be rich by this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Not me lol
My village only has two lights. That's up from the one that we could boast we had from a few years back lol

When I was a kid, we had "stop signs" and they were effective.

Now we have roundabouts and stuff that people don't know how to use yet
 
mcblink said:
Not me lol
My village only has two lights. That's up from the one that we could boast we had from a few years back lol

When I was a kid, we had "stop signs" and they were effective.

Now we have roundabouts and stuff that people don't know how to use yet
Click to expand...
Can you believe they outlawed Octopus farming as well?
No roundabouts in Grays Harbor yet.
 
mcblink said:
Not me lol
My village only has two lights. That's up from the one that we could boast we had from a few years back lol

When I was a kid, we had "stop signs" and they were effective.

Now we have roundabouts and stuff that people don't know how to use yet
Click to expand...
I hate roundabouts with a passion. I get the concept and how it’s supposed to work. To bad 99% of the other drivers are clueless.
 
Perhaps a contrary opinion, but I'm of a mind that until licensing standards are enforced at every level, anything we can do to discourage stupid is helpful.

I neither want, nor am i willing to afford, a cop on every corner. I really like the idea of people being responsible when they fire up the most dangerous thing most will ever use. So if asshats won't slow down in our neighborhoods, won't heed the basic rule, or simply ignore all the others...hell yes take a picture of em and send em a bill.

That said, I'm not a fan of a city relinquishing enforcement to a private contractor.

My jurisdiction may be different, in that a traffic cop is present with the use of photo-radar speed enforcement (about the only traffic enforcement that exists in Portland since citizen oversite was mandated (though not implemented yet) at the ballot box)...

And yes, been hit by both. My son, driving my car, rolled a photo stop and was ticketed by mail. Funny thing though...he takes after his mom, who is Asian, and I am not Asian. Her clearly Asian name and mine are on the title.

So when the ticket was sent out, with a photo of a clearly Asian male at the wheel, the for profit private corporation mailed it to spouse. Didn't look anything like her.

Both they and our city got a nasty letter accusing them of racial profiling. Along with a not very polite "FU, take me to trial you collection of butt holes." They didn't .

And I got popped by a photo-radar on my way to a local ER. Showed up for trial with hospital records. The assigned cop wanted to plea it down. I opted to take my chances. When I presented them to the judge I simply said that I was seeking forgiveness for a clearly exigent circumstance, not permission. She agreed and tossed it.

The cop was displeased. I didn't care. Though, had I known at the time that he was there when I flew by, I'd have stopped and sought help...I was bleeding all over myself and couldn't get it to stop...And American Medical Response doesn't always show up when called (as in this case).
 
mcblink said:
washingtonstatestandard.com

New Washington law will allow traffic cameras on more city streets and county roads • Washington State Standard

Washington wants drivers to slow down. A new law will allow traffic cameras to be deployed on more city streets and county roads.
washingtonstatestandard.com washingtonstatestandard.com


How do you all feel about these things?
They're not new here by any means, but recently they've made some changes to the "law"

I say "law" because evidently they don't know how that works, and neither do the citizens.

I've had a couple of these "tickets" before, but they never got a single penny out of me. Here's why:

1. These cameras are owned and operated by private company. The company leases the cameras to the police department. This is problematic on 2 levels, first, the companies do not have any legal authority to issue citations, second, the money these cameras generate doesn't go to the police department, city or county, it goes to the company that provides the cameras. For this reason, they cannot be enforced because a private company doesn't have any authority in the first place.

2. A photograph of a vehicle in an intersection isn't proof of anything at all. There's no way of knowing who is operating the vehicle. Last time I checked, the burden of proof lies on them, NOT me, in this country.

3. The lies. Once you have had a photo of your vehicle taken, you'll likely get a letter in the main containing threatening language. These are lies. Our legal/justice system in this nation may not be perfect by any means, but these people rely on your stupidity and ignorance of the law to steal your dollars. If you openly admit to, and send money, then it's perfectly legal. Nothing against the law about lying. Police are routinely trained to lie. They lie about the reason they pulled you over, they lie about what they don't smell in your car, and they lie about various reasons for probable cause. Why would a company providing cameras for police be honest? Explain why the lights with cameras on them have shortened times for the yellow lights? But only the lights with cameras, and not the others?


The article even says that the law states that no driver or occupant photos are allowed.
Explain to me how they can prove who was operating the vehicle if there are no photos of the driver? Oh that's right! They can't! Duh!



I've never paid a single dollar to any of these crooked things. If I'm going to pay for a ticket, then it's going to be because an officer, who I also pay through my taxes to do his job, is doing his job. Not a private company operating cameras.

I've never, not once had any legal recourse against me for this. Even called the courthouse and asked once..

Why?

Because what they're doing to begin with is illegal and unconstitutional, and it relies on the ignorance of the citizens and their own honesty, to operate.

It's because they can't and they know it.
That's why anytime someone wants to challenge one of these in court, it's tossed out.

Don't fall for this garbage.

Today it's red light cameras. What will it be tomorrow?
Click to expand...
I received a red light ticket in the mail and ignored it as I had heard that because I did not sign a notice to appear, I legally did not need to appear and could not be held against me unless... I received another ticket that I DID sign a notice to appear. The judge could charge me at that time for the red light camera violation. I never did get another ticket for anything, no worries to be before a judge. A few years later when I received my state tax refund, there was a lien on my tax return for the amount of the red light ticket. POOF!!! Gone, no warning, nothing I could do.
 
WavMixer said:
I received a red light ticket in the mail and ignored it as I had heard that because I did not sign a notice to appear, I legally did not need to appear and could not be held against me unless... I received another ticket that I DID sign a notice to appear. The judge could charge me at that time for the red light camera violation. I never did get another ticket for anything, no worries to be before a judge. A few years later when I received my state tax refund, there was a lien on my tax return for the amount of the red light ticket. POOF!!! Gone, no warning, nothing I could do.
Click to expand...
Well that stinks!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top