Where does the tone come from.... Amplifiers

Makes sense really. A pretty good reference over tone differences can be found in a simple amp modeler if you think about it. What features do most of those cover? They obviously have different models but at no point is there any options to change the power tubes, preamp tubes, rectifiers, transformers, bias or any other components.

Rather the differences show up in the options to change the cabinet and speakers and the preamps of each amp model, with differences in how their EQs are voiced and the sound of their gain structure.

So hunting down elusive tubes, class wiring and components isn't really doing you any favors
 
Clockworkmike said:
Makes sense really. A pretty good reference over tone differences can be found in a simple amp modeler if you think about it. What features do most of those cover? They obviously have different models but at no point is there any options to change the power tubes, preamp tubes, rectifiers, transformers, bias or any other components.

Rather the differences show up in the options to change the cabinet and speakers and the preamps of each amp model, with differences in how their EQs are voiced and the sound of their gain structure.

So hunting down elusive tubes, class wiring and components isn't really doing you any favors
Click to expand...
Agree..speakers much like a car muffler is the last thing in the "sound" chain... i get more "usable in context" tonal nuance out of my tone & volume knobs on guitar & mic position on speaker than any other thing

Pick ya amp & speaker for what you need done in a certain part of mix. what drives me nuts is all this listening to a guitar on its own..basically that has no application in real life if you play in a band or record..its about such a simple process as layering each instrument where it belongs. Almost dont care what i play anymore..they all do the same thing basically, pick ya fav & practice more..

marshall
fender
mesa
vox

they all do a very specific tone to start & do it well, use speaker choice to put in mix where ya want. 2 guitar band, use opposite amps to have a huge L&R sonic mix
 
Thank you for posting that. It solidifies what has been in the back of my mind for a while. Almost any Amp will get almost any tone depending on how you set the controls and what speaker(s) you are using. I used to chase power tube saturation. Now I use a SS Quilter guitar amp with a 1x10 and a 1x12 cab and a SS Ampeg bass combo amp with two 10s and and a 1x12 cab. I can get pretty much any tone I want with a drive pedal for the guitar and a DI and a compressor for the bass.
 
The last time I was actually in a group of guys that played together.
I did have a full stack of Marshall cabs, but I couldn’t afford the 2204 that came up for sale, at this point I was using a M80 fender head SS.
The other guitarist swung the deal on the 2204 and used Randall cabs.
This was in the early 90’s.

I swore I would not play anything but Marshall after that.

I got decent tone, but not what truly inspired me.
Now I have no excuse’s.
 
Yep Jim totally puts to rest some of the more common misconceptions, such as "tone is in the fingers" haha

If tone was actually in the fingers, we'd all only need one type of amp and one type of guitar. And there would be no knobs on anything since tone is apparently in the fingers...
 
Mitch Pearrow SJMP said:
The last time I was actually in a group of guys that played together.
I did have a full stack of Marshall cabs, but I couldn’t afford the 2204 that came up for sale, at this point I was using a M80 fender head SS.
The other guitarist swung the deal on the 2204 and used Randall cabs.
This was in the early 90’s.

I swore I would not play anything but Marshall after that.

I got decent tone, but not what truly inspired me.
Now I have no excuse’s.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty much stuck on a Marshall hangup myself lol I figured out why that is and it's really simple: out of all the major brands ( boutique and clones not included), Marshall has the most mid-heavy tone as any other amp. Sometimes it's almost TOO much mids depending on certain models and in that case, strangely the mid knob of the EQ gets rolled down a lot ( the SLX is a perfect example of that). But even their most basic model has plenty of it and that's what I like.


It should be noted, that the guitar itself is defined as a midvoiced/prime instrument that sits closest to the tenor range from the 1st to 12th fret. Much like how a Viola is the tenor version of a violin or a trombone is the tenor of the brass family, it's the one you hear as the basis of music structure or the rhythm. By that definition, since the guitar is naturally voiced as mostly a tenor, it makes perfect sense why mids are so important to making it sound the best because that's where it's sound lies.

Of course Bass and Treble is naturally important to rounding out your sound obviously, but for general rhythm sound mids is the key and Marshall nailed it from the get go
 
mcblink said:
Yep Jim totally puts to rest some of the more common misconceptions, such as "tone is in the fingers" haha

If tone was actually in the fingers, we'd all only need one type of amp and one type of guitar. And there would be no knobs on anything since tone is apparently in the fingers...
Click to expand...
I think tone does come from the fingers to SOME degree as you can try to replicate the famous sound of someone else and you probably won't get there even if you match their entire signal chain and settings to a T. BUT, you're absolutely right in that using something a Gretsch hollow body and a Fender Champ is NEVER gonna give you someone like EVHs sound even if you played the same way as him or using an EMG loaded Ibanez and Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is gonna make you sound anything close to someone like Jimi Hendrix.

It's really more the gear and a bit of technique that gets the job done. The fingers are the x factor I guess you'd say
 
Clockworkmike said:
I think tone does come from the fingers to SOME degree as you can try to replicate the famous sound of someone else and you probably won't get there even if you match their entire signal chain and settings to a T. BUT, you're absolutely right in that using something a Gretsch hollow body and a Fender Champ is NEVER gonna give you someone like EVHs sound even if you played the same way as him or using an EMG loaded Ibanez and Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is gonna make you sound anything close to someone like Jimi Hendrix.

It's really more the gear and a bit of technique that gets the job done. The fingers are the x factor I guess you'd say
Click to expand...
I agree, but I might word it differently.
I would say that technique can, and does influence the tone of the gear (e.g. pinch harmonics). And that's why players have their own sounds, they've developed their own style of applying these techniques, and that's why they sound like themselves, regardless of who's rig they're playing on.

I just hate the argument "oh EVH sounds like EVH even on a Hello Kitty guitar" or whatever lol I get sucked in almost every time, but I'm sure I'm being trolled more often than not haha

Yes, yes he does. He sounds just like himself. He uses his own style of applying techniques and it sounds just like him because it IS him!
The tone, however, clearly sounds nothing like his own rig.
Like him, we all obviously build our rigs around the tones they give us, the ones we like to hear.
We wouldn't need to do that if all we had to do was change some yet-to-be determined magical aspect about our fingers themselves....why did EVH start tinkering and modding his stuff in the first place? Was it because he wanted to...maybe....alter his tone???

There are people who actually believe that tone lives in the fingers somewhere...
I don't disagree that fingers are part of the equation at all. But I don't think the word they're looking for is tone. I believe it to be technique.
 
mcblink said:
I agree, but I might word it differently.
I would say that technique can, and does influence the tone of the gear (e.g. pinch harmonics). And that's why players have their own sounds, they've developed their own style of applying these techniques, and that's why they sound like themselves, regardless of who's rig they're playing on.

I just hate the argument "oh EVH sounds like EVH even on a Hello Kitty guitar" or whatever lol I get sucked in almost every time, but I'm sure I'm being trolled more often than not haha

Yes, yes he does. He sounds just like himself. He uses his own style of applying techniques and it sounds just like him because it IS him!
The tone, however, clearly sounds nothing like his own rig.
Like him, we all obviously build our rigs around the tones they give us, the ones we like to hear.
We wouldn't need to do that if all we had to do was change some yet-to-be determined magical aspect about our fingers themselves....why did EVH start tinkering and modding his stuff in the first place? Was it because he wanted to...maybe....alter his tone???

There are people who actually believe that tone lives in the fingers somewhere...
I don't disagree that fingers are part of the equation at all. But I don't think the word they're looking for is tone. I believe it to be technique.
Click to expand...
Very true! Good proof is that Eddie kinda lost his sound a bit when he ditched the Frankenstein's and his suped up Plexi for Peaveys and Musicman guitars. Was it still Eddie? Well yeah but you listen to albums like upto 1984 compared with something like For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge onward and the tone is pretty different. In between the two he was using Kramers and even Soldanos at one point and the sound was again different
 
Kerry Brown said:
Thank you for posting that. It solidifies what has been in the back of my mind for a while. Almost any Amp will get almost any tone depending on how you set the controls and what speaker(s) you are using. I used to chase power tube saturation. Now I use a SS Quilter guitar amp with a 1x10 and a 1x12 cab and a SS Ampeg bass combo amp with two 10s and and a 1x12 cab. I can get pretty much any tone I want with a drive pedal for the guitar and a DI and a compressor for the bass.
Click to expand...
Aviator Mach 3.
 

Attachments

Mr. Potato Head said:
And here is the best speaker for the job....................lets open a can O worms.
Click to expand...
I started off as a Celestion guy, I'll die a Celestion guy lol

Technically not true as the Squier Champ 15 I had, contained some unknown 8" speaker and then Peavey Envoy 110 had this Peavey Blue Marvel that was supposed to be a Jensen/Eminence ripoff but im not counting either of those lol
 
Clockworkmike said:
I started off as a Celestion guy, I'll die a Celestion guy lol

Technically not true as the Squier Champ 15 I had, contained some unknown 8" speaker and then Peavey Envoy 110 had this Peavey Blue Marvel that was supposed to be a Jensen/Eminence ripoff but im not counting either of those lol
Click to expand...
I like Celstions too. However, the Weber Blue Dog in Marsh Buffalo Reverb is excellent. And if I run the Quilter on "Vox" or "Plexi" chanels it sounds good through the Celestion in the amp , but even more authentic through the Alnico Blue Dog. However the Fender channels sound better thru the Celestion 250 in the amp.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top