Could I Do It Without an FX Loop???

[Inspector #20]

Seems like I am always over-analyzing things and running in circles....LOL

I was pretty bummed my old 1993 Valvestate took a dump a week before our NASCAR event, but I am super grateful that I discovered it yesterday. I've temporarily switched to my 2 year old Marshall MG100HFX (which I'm using primarily as a platform for my DAW work here in my home studio) and it's doing a great job. But, I'm thinking long term how I could possibly go to a hand-wired amp that would be easier for me to fix should something stop working. I'm not a real fan of things that have to be worked on. My amp skills are limited to replacing pots and tubes. I'm not skilled like some of our members and I couldn't deal with a problem like a PCB mounted component. I have changed out a few bad caps/resistors on a colleague's Germino Lead 55 (which was point to point) and I did OK on that job. the amp is currently working 5 nights a week, so I guess I did it right.

Ok, moving forward...I've always used an FX loop (live) for two primary purposes:

1. Using a Boss FV30L to control volume (as with a tube amp like my Origin/Ivanberg or when using the Studio's JCM800/2204)

2. Using a Boss GE-7 as a solo boost without increasing gain levels.

I could get away without delay and reverb, because you cannot really hear either one during a live performance at stage volumes (without a board/snake/FOH setup) but having an FX loop seems necessary for me to use my other previously mentioned FX.

Or, is there another way I could do this????

I have a Weber Mass Lite 100 Attenuator, but it only has one input and I always drive each speaker in a 2x12 cabinet independently, so that's not a great option either.

I still have the Ivanberg Modded origin, but just looking at the work @syscokid did on that PCB makes me just want to be totally away from anything PCB.

I've considered either building a British style amp from a kit, but that's more time than I can invest right now. The other option is buying a brand new, Hand-Wired Plexi Re-issue and reconfiguring my pedalboard to run in only "front of amp" configuration.

It seems like eliminating the FX loop effects (delay, reverb, volume pedal) would be simple enough and my basic (current) configuration (Tuner/Wah/TS-9/CS-3/GE-7/NS-2) would function normally going into the front of the amp.

It I used a second GE-7 for a volume boost for solos in the front of the amp, that would increase my gain slightly, right??? But otherwise, would work fine I think???

For guys who are using these old Marshalls (i think they are sometimes referred to as PPMV???) in a live scenario without going FOH (which are most of my working gigs) how do you go about getting a good tone from them when you can't run really high volume levels.

Really not looking for a fight here, but some serious questions and answers.

Thanks...

 

[syscokid]

The other option is buying a brand new, Hand-Wired Plexi Re-issue...

Good Lord, them are pricey mofos! $3800 plus another $300 in taxes!! Single channel and no fx loop... But a modular fx loop from Metro could be easily added to this circuit.

For a $1000 less, may I suggest the Friedman Twin Sister: 2 channel switcher, fx loop, made in USA, USA made trannies, & handwired (mostly).

TWIN SISTER HEAD - Friedman Amplification

The Twin Sister is a 40-watt, 5881 powered, dual channel head based on a modified JTM 45 but still delivers the signature British tone for which Friedman has become known for.

friedmanamplification.com

 

[Inspector #20]

Good Lord, them are pricey mofos! $3800 plus another $300 in taxes!! Single channel and no fx loop... But a modular fx loop from Metro could be easily added to this circuit.

For a $1000 less, may I suggest the Friedman Twin Sister: 2 channel switcher, fx loop, made in USA, USA made trannies, & handwired (mostly).

TWIN SISTER HEAD - Friedman Amplification

The Twin Sister is a 40-watt, 5881 powered, dual channel head based on a modified JTM 45 but still delivers the signature British tone for which Friedman has become known for.

friedmanamplification.com

View attachment 80625

That's actually not a bad amp and the factory FX loop is a nice feature...

 

[Inspector #20]

I might be tempted to buy that Friedmann if it was offered in a black and gold theme...crazy as that sounds.

But, I like how the Marshall tone stack works, and I have already fallen into the lunacy of the teeter-totter Mesa tone stack operation and don't want a repeat of that situation all over again. Plus, like most amps out there, the Friedmann is a copy of a Marshall. I'm probably gonna just go Marshall and just quit using the FX loop altogether. This will simplify my signal chain and allow me to use a smaller board, fewer cables, etc.

True, the prices are high, but you can't compare the quality of the British made stuff. with Vietnam or China amps. I look at the China-made EVH amps daily and I see all kinds of issues in the workmanship, despite their huge following.

Once I got past paying $3,000 for a Gibson les Paul, $3,800 for a 100 watt, hand-wired Plexi doesn't seem so bad....Plus, its a tax write-off for me as a music instructor.

 

[syscokid]

Once I got past paying $3,000 for a Gibson les Paul, $3,800 for a 100 watt, hand-wired Plexi doesn't seem so bad....

Robert.... You have evolved! Congratulations...

Plus, its a tax write-off for me as a music instructor.

Shhhhhh! There are certain types of "people", that make lots more money than you, that would like to deny you this right...

 

[Inspector #20]

Robert.... You have evolved! Congratulations...



Shhhhhh! There are certain types of "people", that make lots more money than you, that would like to deny you this right...

LOL!

I know some forum members here who would probably lie to see me go away permanently too!!!!

 

[Cadorman]

I go back and forth between amps having an FX loop and not. You do have to tweak the time based effects depending on whether they are in a loop or in front, but they work fine either way. The only problem I see is the volume control without affecting the gain. If you can figure that out you really don't need a loop. I have about a grand into my 1987 build. I would never pay for a vintage reissue Marshall. The prices are insane.

 

[Cadorman]

And FWIW I started drinking at 11:00 today, so keep that in mind.

 

[Jethro Rocker]

I might be tempted to buy that Friedmann if it was offered in a black and gold theme...crazy as that sounds.

But, I like how the Marshall tone stack works, and I have already fallen into the lunacy of the teeter-totter Mesa tone stack operation and don't want a repeat of that situation all over again. Plus, like most amps out there, the Friedmann is a copy of a Marshall. I'm probably gonna just go Marshall and just quit using the FX loop altogether. This will simplify my signal chain and allow me to use a smaller board, fewer cables, etc.

True, the prices are high, but you can't compare the quality of the British made stuff. with Vietnam or China amps. I look at the China-made EVH amps daily and I see all kinds of issues in the workmanship, despite their huge following.

Once I got past paying $3,000 for a Gibson les Paul, $3,800 for a 100 watt, hand-wired Plexi doesn't seem so bad....Plus, its a tax write-off for me as a music instructor.

Loop gives volume boost and some tonal differences with the EQ. In front it won't do much IF you have saturated the front end already and I know you play with a decent amount of gain to be sure.
For me, instead of findjng something that may be easier to work on, make sure you have a good reliable back up, of course, and preferably 2 good reliable amps.
If the MG is quite new and still working, get the VS repaired and keep as a spare.
I would think tubes would die mid gig etc before the MG would probably crap out?

 

[Inspector #20]

@syscokid

Here's the one I been thinking about....

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1959HW--marshall-1959hw-100-watt-handwired-tube-head

I will need to ditch the FX loop and adopt a generally, "less gainy" tone, but with the new band (and a new producer) he's really pulled me back on the gain levels.

I wrote three songs yesterday and the rough demos are decidedly lower gain than I've ever played with before.

One benefit to this amp would be that switching on the GE-7 for a solo boost would also add some gain.

P.S. If you PM, I'll le you hear some of the original songs that are currently in progress.

 

[Inspector #20]

I go back and forth between amps having an FX loop and not. You do have to tweak the time based effects depending on whether they are in a loop or in front, but they work fine either way. The only problem I see is the volume control without affecting the gain. If you can figure that out you really don't need a loop. I have about a grand into my 1987 build. I would never pay for a vintage reissue Marshall. The prices are insane.

I'm cool with the pricing. I'd rather buy brand new than a used amp and not be sure it will get me through a performance.

 

[syscokid]

Here's the one I been thinking about....

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1959HW--marshall-1959hw-100-watt-handwired-tube-head

Yup, that's the one I was referring to.

 

[Cadorman]

Robert, you could easily build a kit of a 50 watt non master volume with a Metropolis fx loop for under $1200, or an 800 for that matter. Now if you don't have the time to do it and you don't mind the extra money I would look at some of the small builders like Granger. They have some pretty cool stuff and there are others out there. There is no reason to pay $3k plus for a Marshall without an FX loop.

 

[Inspector #20]

Loop gives volume boost and some tonal differences with the EQ. In front it won't do much IF you have saturated the front end already and I know you play with a decent amount of gain to be sure.
For me, instead of findjng something that may be easier to work on, make sure you have a good reliable back up, of course, and preferably 2 good reliable amps.
If the MG is quite new and still working, get the VS repaired and keep as a spare.
I would think tubes would die mid gig etc before the MG would probably crap out?

Good points.

Yes, the 'MG' is a sturdy, relatively reliable platform. As we are moving forward with our new CD, we have a new producer on board and he's throttled me back a ton on gain. I don't question these guys, I just do what I am told, but I must admit I kind of like the way things are sounding.

Another thing that has changed my sound is my writing.

When I proposed the song "Bad Dog" to my band in 2020, they didn't like it because it "sounded too much like AC/DC." Not only did that shelve the song project, it kinda made me stop writing too, because - with rare exception - most of what I write originally has a kind of AC/DC flair.

Now, my generous gain levels were largely based on doing such a wide variety of 80's metal and such in cover bands.

When I teamed up with the new drummer and we created our new side project, he suggested we go with a producer. Initially, I was like "oh, great," but I'm starting to see a real benefit to his corrective input. He sat me down and said, "What's wrong with sounding like AC/DC? There's no carbon copy of them, but if you write naturally in that structure and vein, then it would be absurd to try to intentionally write in another fashion. Write what's inside of you..."

Bam! I cranked out three songs in a few hours. It was like i had been let out of prison.

Now I know that some dudes in here have a dislike for me, and would be happier if i didn't post at all, but I gotta tell you that this 'revelation' changed so many things for me, including my sound and even the equipment I am using.

You're experience is 100% correct. Tubes are always a wild card, but I gigged two DSL40C's for 2-1/2 years without a tube problem, and I still carry spare tubes in my bag and have for years, so I'm thinkiing I should be Ok and I've got a 2 year old backup if needed.

The purchase is also a tax write-off, so my wife (the accountant) is very supportive, plus its new and I am more likely to be able to fix a PTP amp than a PCB based unit.

 

[Inspector #20]

Robert, you could easily build a kit of a 50 watt non master volume with a Metropolis fx loop for under $1200, or an 800 for that matter. Now if you don't have the time to do it and you don't mind the extra money I would look at some of the small builders like Granger. They have some pretty cool stuff and there are others out there. There is no reason to pay $3k plus for a Marshall without an FX loop.

Good ideas, Man...

I'm notoriously impatient though and being able to write these things off is a huge incentive.

I don't think I could build one.

 

[Sapient]

I've never had much use for a FX loop myself. I do run my analog reverb through there because it had to due to voltage and it being ideal for a loop. I wouldn't even bother with my pedals going through there.

That Marshall is like ...God! I'd say you might get hit when you sell it for not having a loop. Not that baby though. That thing could require loose craps on the floor and everyone would still want it.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

@Robert Herndon - Glad to see you’re willing to make the investment…sorry to see that investment is lacking a feature that you have become accustomed to having at your disposal...forcing a compromise(or a new learning experience).
I’m sure your path will be interesting.

FWIW- My 18 watt has no loop…I gigged it many times…originals and covers…from AC/DC to Metallica to Tool to Zeppelin…you’ll figure out what works for you eventually.

I’m also in agreement with @syscokid …maybe something from the Friedman line would fit a bit better with your current way of doing things…a JJ 100 seems to tick all the listed boxes…including color scheme.
edit: or maybe the Small Box 50 Watt…to save weight.

 

[Inspector #20]

@Robert Herndon - Glad to see you’re willing to make the investment…sorry to see that investment is lacking a feature that you have become accustomed to having at your disposal...forcing a compromise(or a new learning experience).
I’m sure your path will be interesting.

FWIW- My 18 watt has no loop…I gigged it many times…originals and covers…from AC/DC to Metallica to Tool to Zeppelin…you’ll figure out what works for you eventually.

I’m also in agreement with @syscokid …maybe something from the Friedman line would fit a bit better with your current way of doing things…a JJ 100 seems to tick all the listed boxes…including color scheme.
edit: or maybe the Small Box 50 Watt…to save weight.

Thanks, Man...

The JJ 100 does indeed look cool. I'll admit I'm silly to have a color scheme be a deal breaker, but I'm just a gold/black lover I suppose. It's in the budget too. I wonder if the tone stack works like a Marshall???

i think the biggest "curve" for me will be NOT being able to 'throttle up" the power tubes with the Boss FV30L, but I'm looking at this differently, in that this could be a 'positive' and yield a more simple pedalboard too???

I still have a TS-9 (which I plan to use for tightness and not so much gain production anymore) and I could still run (2) GE-7's with one set to 'color' the tone and one set 'flat' to yield a boost for solos?????

 

[Inspector #20]

@Robert Herndon - Glad to see you’re willing to make the investment…sorry to see that investment is lacking a feature that you have become accustomed to having at your disposal...forcing a compromise(or a new learning experience).
I’m sure your path will be interesting.

FWIW- My 18 watt has no loop…I gigged it many times…originals and covers…from AC/DC to Metallica to Tool to Zeppelin…you’ll figure out what works for you eventually.

I’m also in agreement with @syscokid …maybe something from the Friedman line would fit a bit better with your current way of doing things…a JJ 100 seems to tick all the listed boxes…including color scheme.
edit: or maybe the Small Box 50 Watt…to save weight.

I suppose I need my head examined for trying to push a 28 year old amp. It's like driving a 30 year old car to Florida.

My fault alone.

 

[Thatbastarddon]

The JJ 100 does indeed look cool. I'll admit I'm silly to have a color scheme be a deal breaker, but I'm just a gold/black lover I suppose. It's in the budget too. I wonder if the tone stack works like a Marshall???

@mcblink has the JJ Jr(small version)…and he has some Marshall experience too…perhaps he could share his experiences.
IMO He seemed to have no problem dialing in his tone when he got it.