Ha! You and I must have been creating our posts at the same time. We essentially gave the same type of answer!
can you go amp-less?
- Thread starter eSGEe
- Start date
Ha! You and I must have been creating our posts at the same time. We essentially gave the same type of answer!
DBi5
Well-Known Member
I would still love to use a Modeler pedal, but i just haven't been able to get it working for me, plus it would have to be a lot less financial outlay than Fractal, something like a Boss GT1000, but how on earth do you get them working without a back line set up, sorry for going on, but i think(Dream) about this a lot.
The absolute minimalistic/cost conscious rig I can think of would be a s/h Digitech Artist Series pedal from the mid 2000's and a budget set of IEM's.
I have used all four of the Artist pedals back in the day.
It would be interesting to see how the Hendrix and Clapton modelling pedals hold up thru a desk in 2022.
I'm an old stinker, that still plays Pub Gigs(UK), so lighter is better ,the idea of these digital devices is massively appealing, i've tried several older generation Boss & Line 6 products & a Line 6 Stomp(so fairly up to Date), but for pub gigging i never did crack the formula for just carting around a "Modeller Pedal" instead of a Combo(very often 2), the nearest i came to my "perfect" gigging set up was 2 x Roland "COSM" Cube 60's, i gigged for nearly 10 years with this setup replacing 1 of them every 2 or 3 years when they died, i kept running 2 of these until they replaced them with Cube 80& now i'm back to a cheap ORI50c but HF modded,.
The problem for me with the Modelers was that getting an "on stage" sound, meant a power amp & speaker Cab(so as much gear as 2 Combos) & i could never get the GT100 to sound as good as the Cubes, maybe this says more about me than the Modeling Products, but in my defence i will say that in Pub gig world i have never seen anybody using a Modeling pedal for Guitar sound, i've seen loads used for effects, but always running through a Combo, though i have seen "One" Kemper plugged into a Diezel combo which was used for Guitar sound & effects, sounded bloody good but still stuff to carry & lots of Money.
Having said all this i would still love to use a Modeler pedal, but i just haven't been able to get it working for me, plus it would have to be a lot less financial outlay than Fractal, something like a Boss GT1000, but how on earth do you get them working without a back line set up, sorry for going on, but i think(Dream) about this a lot.
There’s one other thing to consider. Actually, I think it is the most important thing to consider…what do you need?
When it comes to processors, SS amps, tube amps, pedals, analog, digital…what have you…I’m an “all the above” kind of person. I don’t have a love affair with any of it. I say that to preface what I am about to say so you know I’m not trying to push a technology.
Ultimately, when it comes to a processor (modeler) you need to ask what you wish to achieve from it that your current rig can’t provide. If an easier load-in and load-out is all you’re looking for, well, that’s certainly as fair a reason as any! But, in my experience, processors take a little work to get your patches built and programmed in. Even if you download and install patches, you still may want to tweak them. There is a learning curve to this. But, if your current situation doesn’t really demand a processor and you’re able to do what you need with your current rig, then maybe it’s not worth it to switch to something else.
Now, at times, they are an absolute wonder. In a band I used to be in our set list went from Fleetwood Mac to Journey to Aretha Franklin to ZZ Top to Tom Petty to Johnny Cash to Heart to Whitesnake to Deep Purple to U2 and some others I can’t remember. I found a processor to be fantastic for this as I could set patches for the set list (which took hours of time) to cover all the different styles and genres. But, on stage I could quickly go from one to the other. It was great.
At the moment, I’m able to do everything I need with a 25 watt Rivera Clubster head, a 1x12 speaker cabinet, and an old-school style pedal board. It’s simple, it’s easy to set up, and it really sounds good. So, I’m happy with that. Maybe, one day I’ll be in a situation again where I need the power and flexibility of the processor. I’ll be ready!
The point is, think about what you need. Don’t go with any solution or technology either out of peer pressure or some sense that you need to “change with the times”. Let your real needs be your guide.
SG John
Ambassador of Cool Guitars and Amps.
Exactly. I have a bunch of old stuff that I've had for years. It serves it's purpose, and it all sounds damn fine. It serves it's purpose for practicing, jamming, and playing out at the occasional types of gigs I do. It will be fine for recording if I do that again too. Why would I want to spend any money on more stuff? Actually, since I got the Martin and the ES-335, I'm considering having less stuff.
Even though I've got enough money stashed away for a nice acoustic with a pickup and preamp, I would rather sit on the cash and maybe book a few recording sessions if our drummer ever heals up enough to play again. If we don't, maybe I'll still go for a Koa Taylor or something else that tickles my fancy.
Jethro Rocker
Ambassador of Live & Loud Action
Magnificent post.
That brings up another minor point - I personally do not care for presets. Depending in the amp, some do not show where the current preset controls are, that is, it is showing the current Panel settings that might not correspond to the preset... so..
If you have to change a preset, you have no real idea where the current controls are set which can be painful.
The Boss Katana has a Panel setting as does the JMD. So I use the amp like any other, change the front panel settings and modes between songs as required, which is minimal for me. Then the presets are either for clean or solos.
I hope that makes sense?
The little BluGuitar Amp 1 pedal amp shares controls except volumes but seems to be set very well so minimal tweaking required.
What ypu need or want as Smitty said really determjnes if it is worth looking at
OP
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
honestly..........Don't need a damn bit of it --
I dont gig
I dont play out
I dont record.
I dont earn a living with gear (though I have made some PROFIT with it
) I dont play well
I dont know WTF Im playing
I cant read sheet music and dont care to learn
.... HOWEVER ...... all that said
I do enjoy working on gear, researching gear... finding deals on gear .. fixing gear ....learning about gear .....
making improvisational jazz noodles with metal overtones in the evenings to keep me calm -- placated/pacified -- and not killing ignorant morons that roam the world and ruin my day regularly ........ so
TBTH I dont NEED any gear .... the greater public NEEDS ME TO HAVE GEAR ....... so I have less free time and ZERO spending $ to build large weapons of mass destruction .... (and no @Amp Mad Scientist there are NO TUBES in these weapons ... sorry ...)
I leave it to you all then in an attempt to HELP the GREATER PUBLIC the BALANCE OF GOOD AND EVIL and HUMANITY AS A WHOLE ............................. SEND ME ALL YOUR GEAR NOW DAMN IT!
OP
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
Hotone Ampero they are 400.00 new can be had used for around 250.00 (not sure the conversion to Imperial Credits of the Realm)I'm an old stinker, that still plays Pub Gigs(UK), so lighter is better ,the idea of these digital devices is massively appealing, i've tried several older generation Boss & Line 6 products & a Line 6 Stomp(so fairly up to Date), but for pub gigging i never did crack the formula for just carting around a "Modeller Pedal" instead of a Combo(very often 2), the nearest i came to my "perfect" gigging set up was 2 x Roland "COSM" Cube 60's, i gigged for nearly 10 years with this setup replacing 1 of them every 2 or 3 years when they died, i kept running 2 of these until they replaced them with Cube 80
The problem for me with the Modelers was that getting an "on stage" sound, meant a power amp & speaker Cab(so as much gear as 2 Combos) & i could never get the GT100 to sound as good as the Cubes, maybe this says more about me than the Modeling Products, but in my defence i will say that in Pub gig world i have never seen anybody using a Modeling pedal for Guitar sound, i've seen loads used for effects, but always running through a Combo, though i have seen "One" Kemper plugged into a Diezel combo which was used for Guitar sound & effects, sounded bloody good but still stuff to carry & lots of Money.
Having said all this i would still love to use a Modeler pedal, but i just haven't been able to get it working for me, plus it would have to be a lot less financial outlay than Fractal, something like a Boss GT1000, but how on earth do you get them working without a back line set up, sorry for going on, but i think(Dream) about this a lot.
Has all the connections to go to front of house..... monitors... or into a powered amp -- (ive done MOnitors and amps ... never been "front of house" )
Call Andertons and ask -- no really-- there are a metric CRAP LOAD of options and a tech could help steer you ....
HEre is proof/ food for thought -- you can even play a HUGE NFL STADIUM ...................... with a Boss GT1000Core
(scroll or watch to 1:49 in .... they are "setting" up for the show ..... with the BOSS GT1000Core. )
and well here ya go ......................... more info
I’m shocked by the tone of my little GS Mini…still honeymooning though….may be a while. Compared to my Mexi-Martins spruce top though….a very sweet, warm, tone…Diggin the Koa.
I'm an old stinker, that still plays Pub Gigs(UK), so lighter is better ,the idea of these digital devices is massively appealing, i've tried several older generation Boss & Line 6 products & a Line 6 Stomp(so fairly up to Date), but for pub gigging i never did crack the formula for just carting around a "Modeller Pedal" instead of a Combo(very often 2), the nearest i came to my "perfect" gigging set up was 2 x Roland "COSM" Cube 60's, i gigged for nearly 10 years with this setup replacing 1 of them every 2 or 3 years when they died, i kept running 2 of these until they replaced them with Cube 80
The problem for me with the Modelers was that getting an "on stage" sound, meant a power amp & speaker Cab(so as much gear as 2 Combos) & i could never get the GT100 to sound as good as the Cubes, maybe this says more about me than the Modeling Products, but in my defence i will say that in Pub gig world i have never seen anybody using a Modeling pedal for Guitar sound, i've seen loads used for effects, but always running through a Combo, though i have seen "One" Kemper plugged into a Diezel combo which was used for Guitar sound & effects, sounded bloody good but still stuff to carry & lots of Money.
Having said all this i would still love to use a Modeler pedal, but i just haven't been able to get it working for me, plus it would have to be a lot less financial outlay than Fractal, something like a Boss GT1000, but how on earth do you get them working without a back line set up, sorry for going on, but i think(Dream) about this a lot.
There's some great clues in this video....
OP
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
And as stated previously SHE ISNT THE ONLY ONE ... the list of concerts being performed (and recordings being made) and OLD ROCK STANDARDS being played live through a Fractal
.......are mind blowing and occur all the time big names -- touring with AxeFX ---Metallica playing the ROSE BOWL....... using Axe FX.............. the horror --
honestly..........Don't need a damn bit of it --
I dont gig
I dont play out
I dont record.
I dont earn a living with gear (though I have made some PROFIT with it
I dont play well
I dont know WTF Im playing
I cant read sheet music and dont care to learn
.... HOWEVER ...... all that said
I do enjoy working on gear, researching gear... finding deals on gear .. fixing gear ....learning about gear .....
making improvisational jazz noodles with metal overtones in the evenings to keep me calm -- placated/pacified -- and not killing ignorant morons that roam the world and ruin my day regularly ........ so
TBTH I dont NEED any gear .... the greater public NEEDS ME TO HAVE GEAR ....... so I have less free time and ZERO spending $ to build large weapons of mass destruction .... (and no @Amp Mad Scientist there are NO TUBES in these weapons ... sorry ...)
I leave it to you all then in an attempt to HELP the GREATER PUBLIC the BALANCE OF GOOD AND EVIL and HUMANITY AS A WHOLE ............................. SEND ME ALL YOUR GEAR NOW DAMN IT!
Oh, I completely agree. Anyone can get whatever one wants and doesn’t owe anyone else any reason or explanation. 100%!
But, @old rocker was asking specifically about a live, gigging situation. So, I was trying to focus on that scenario. That was the reason I stressed that one’s needs should be the determining factor in gear selection - even if that need is nothing more than being able to load-in more quickly!
But, of course, sometimes folks just want to try something new. They may not need to, but they may just want to “explore the space”, if you will. I totally get that, too.
What should not happen is that people get emotionally pressured to either stick with vintage gear (and possibly miss the opportunity to add capabilities) or to use the newer stuff (and possibly waste time, money, and energy in the process). Sticking with one platform or using another should be that person’s own choice based on that person’s actual needs or genuine desire.
old rocker
Well-Known Member
Yes my question was about using Digital/Modelling amplification in my particular gigging situation, we are a 3 piece band that play mostly small Pubs we have our own Band PA which is capable of a full Band Mix(time permitting), but usually just Vox & Drums & we don't carry monitors.
So old school backline Amps & we rely on hearing the vocals from the PA speakers(as we've always done),plus increasingly more Venues(Pubs) are providing Small house PA systems(a great way of keeping volume levels down) which are only Vocal Systems, with the occasional venue having a Bass bin, but then set up time doesn't really allow for anything much more than Vox mics & a Kik mic, definitely no "monitoring system",this is the reality of our gigging situation.
So given the above this makes a Modeller running through the PA unrealistic, hence my comments about running maybe a GT1000(etc) via a power Amp & speaker Cab, which i've so far not been successful with, usingolder gen modelers.
BUT, i keep realising that i'm still basically gigging with just about the same type of amplification i was using more than 60 years ago, in other words Guitar info Valve Amp, almost completely with on effects & i should be doing better
, by that i mean with the modern tech available i could be using more variation in Guitar sounds & tones, to suit the varying covers we play.As i said previously my most versatile set up was my 2 x Cube 60's, but they where limited with no selectable Amp Model switching "on the Fly" , so i know Modelling Amps can hack it, but so far i've failed with other modeling equipment
.On the bright side i'm still up for 1 last try, because i think a GT1000 with suitable Amplification could give me the flexibility ,if i could figure out how best to achieve it, at my age i've running out of time, well to be honest according to SWMBO i run out of time about 15 years ago
.So is a GT1000 into a stereo power Amp & 2x12" viable without using it full range into FRFR, (which i don't think i can get used to), or should i just stop dreaming & keep my HF ORI50C ?,which sounds great & just be thankful that at 76
,i'm still gigging .
Jethro Rocker
Ambassador of Live & Loud Action
First..wow! No monitors? I have never done that. Hard as hell on the voice.Yes my question was about using Digital/Modelling amplification in my particular gigging situation, we are a 3 piece band that play mostly small Pubs we have our own Band PA which is capable of a full Band Mix(time permitting), but usually just Vox & Drums & we don't carry monitors.
So old school backline Amps & we rely on hearing the vocals from the PA speakers(as we've always done),plus increasingly more Venues(Pubs) are providing Small house PA systems(a great way of keeping volume levels down) which are only Vocal Systems, with the occasional venue having a Bass bin, but then set up time doesn't really allow for anything much more than Vox mics & a Kik mic, definitely no "monitoring system",this is the reality of our gigging situation.
So given the above this makes a Modeller running through the PA unrealistic, hence my comments about running maybe a GT1000(etc) via a power Amp & speaker Cab, which i've so far not been successful with, usingolder gen modelers.
BUT, i keep realising that i'm still basically gigging with just about the same type of amplification i was using more than 60 years ago, in other words Guitar info Valve Amp, almost completely with on effects & i should be doing better
As i said previously my most versatile set up was my 2 x Cube 60's, but they where limited with no selectable Amp Model switching "on the Fly" , so i know Modelling Amps can hack it, but so far i've failed with other modeling equipment
On the bright side i'm still up for 1 last try, because i think a GT1000 with suitable Amplification could give me the flexibility ,if i could figure out how best to achieve it, at my age i've running out of time, well to be honest according to SWMBO i run out of time about 15 years ago
So is a GT1000 into a stereo power Amp & 2x12" viable without using it full range into FRFR, (which i don't think i can get used to), or should i just stop dreaming & keep my HF ORI50C ?,which sounds great & just be thankful that at 76
Secondly given that perhaps just a multi channel combo would be every bit as good for you - a Katana even with it's many programs. and effects. I say just stick to a combo with multi channels. Without monitors I don't know how carrying a modeler and speaker is any better than just a combo?
Iron1
AmbassaDOOM of Red VVinter
This really needs to be embedded in the forum graphics somewhere for all to see.
TCE63
Ambassador of the Northern Lights
Let me know what you think of it, I may do the same this upcoming week
So I had my Headrush in the rehearsel room today, and it was great.
It really sounds fantastic in the PA and in my monitors.
Would it be good enough to gig with, yes I actually think so.
A great little unit and I dont heart my Back !
The Headrush in one hand and my Guitar in the other
Cheers