A Student Told Me He Wanted To Quit:

Clockworkmike said:
Cool of you to send him some upgraded gear to try out! But i think he got the moral of the story: he had upgraded gear and still didnt notice the difference in his own sound. That's the harsh reality too many people have got to suffer, especially people with endless financial resources. You can have a $10k rig and if you dont put in the time, it'll still sound worse than someone with a $250 rig that knows what they're doing.

Good news though, is he seems to have realized that putting the work in will make himself sound better. Its easy to get distraught and frustrated, but nothing good was ever going to be easy anyways.
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well, hello tik tok mr gibson tv clock, we have been expecting you..... :cool:
 
Robert Herndon said:
Adrian and I were talking this morning and I decided to post this.

A student came in a couple of months back and told me he was thinking about quitting.

I asked him why.

He has a Squire Made in China and a Fender Champion 40 amp.

He's been asking otherguitar players for advice and posting questions on some music forums.

He's been told that "Squires suck" and you need a "PRS Silver Sky or a "real" guitar like a Gibson Les Paul.

I laughed and told him, "Dude, a Silver Sky is basically a Squire with a 3+3 headstock. Why you letting these fools rain on your parade?"

He said that he's been told he can't get a good tone with a Champion 40 and that he needs a "real amp" and he proceeded to tell me the list of recommendations, from EVH III (China builds) to Bugeras, to Marshalls.

He was so bummed out I felt really bad for him and he's not able to "step up" to better gear.

I told him, "Dude...none of these guys play for a living. Their opinions are meaningless. What do YOU want??"

He replied, "I want to get a good sound and I want to get better so I can join a band, and everyone's telling me I need this or that to get better tones and I can't afford this stuff."

So, I told him this...

"Tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna send you my Purple Schecter home along with a Marshall DSL40C loaner. I'll do a pro level setup on your Squire and I'll play the Squire through your Champion 40 at next rehearsal and you tell me what you think about all the bull:poo: these guys are pushing on you..."

I did a pro-level setup on his Squire, 7-angled the nut so the stock tremolo stays in tune, put good strings on it (properly) and dialed everything in to factory specs.

The following Saturday, I played our rehearsal with his Squire through the Champion and he was amazed.

I asked him, "So, did the Schecter and the DSL40C give you the tones you were looking for???"

He said, "They are really nice, but I didn't notice much difference in tone..."

To which I told him, "See! These forum bull:poo:ters and bedroom wankers got you ready to quit and their bull:poo: theories don't hold water. Tube amp superiority is an absolute myth. Don't buy into that."

I then gave him a tutorial on settings and how to get a good tone out of any guitar/amp combo and I sent him on his way.

The following Saturday, he was in early for his lesson and was super enthusiastic.

He was happy and showed greater progress than he had the previous 2 weeks. What a cool feeling!!!

These kinds of scenarios play out day after day and it's one of the reasons I'm so outspoken when I hear about "musical truths" that in reality are based on nothing more than personal preference and tastes.

Such a cool thing to be able to dig these guys out of the mud and give them a renewed sense of direction.

Wishing you success and prosperity...

- Rob
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Tube amp superiority is an absolute certainty.
All these solid state gizmos........are just trying to imitate the sound of a tube amp.

If there were no tube amps, there would be no profiler to imitate tube amps.

Incidentally, I think transistors suck eggs....I think they sound like absolute garbage.

Although we can understand the constant barrage of idiocy posted on internet sites...
He shouldn't be quitting.
He should be saving money for a good guitar and amp.
And that's no reason to give up playing.
 
"The following Saturday, he was in early for his lesson and was super enthusiastic.
He was happy and showed greater progress than he had the previous 2 weeks. What a cool feeling!!!"

Awesome!
You gained his trust as a mentor and friend, and just as important, kept him off the internet for 2 weeks and playing guitar!
That's a lesson we all need to learn. As a kid, he really shouldn't have all the distractions of adulthood yet, so you did well removing another distraction and making playing and learning a priority. Time with the instrument is what everybody needs for improvement.

I think now, I'll go play for a minute or two before I work a 12hr night shift, lol.
 
Yes there was a time when Fender stopped making tube amps.
And - the solid state amps they started making were a hideous failure.
Solid state almost put Fender out of business...

Soon after Fender realized how stupid a decision they had made.
And...went back to making tube amps. (which saved the company)

All attempts to change musicians over to solid state- have failed.
Musicians by and large want tube amps.

Why is this?
because solid state amps don't sound as good as tube amps.
 
RVA said:
Nice story, but a little offensive. I don't play for a living but I don't feel my opinion is meaningless. I play in my bedroom and the don't consider myself a wanker. You don't need to be a pro to know.
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And then there is this, which is also true.

Conversely, there are a number of people who get paid to play yet they sound like garbage and/or have no real talent.

So, there's that.
 
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RVA said:
Nice story, but a little offensive. I don't play for a living but I don't feel my opinon is meaningless. I play in my bedroom and the don't consider myself a wanker. You don't need to be a pro to know.
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Good point. I understand putting the people in their place who denigrate other's equipment but the generalizations as presented in this thread can be a bit insulting.
I spend far more on gear and gas etc than I ever make playing even though we get paid something for it. It matters not as long as we are enjoying ourselves.
As mentioned elsewhere I for one am GLAD I do not HAVE to play to make the bills. I can sit on the couch n scratch the nads, it's just the same! :D
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
Yes there was a time when Fender stopped making tube amps.
And - the solid state amps they started making were a hideous failure.
Solid state almost put Fender out of business...

Soon after Fender realized how stupid a decision they had made.
And...went back to making tube amps. (which saved the company)

All attempts to change musicians over to solid state- have failed.
Musicians by and large want tube amps.

Why is this?
because solid state amps don't sound as good as tube amps.
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Try some. Try a good modeler or even the BluGuitar which has a single tube. Sounds fantastic and I suspect in an AB test you would not hear the diff between a Kemper, Axe or Marshall.
Good is very subjective. Mild ACDC crunch is not the epitome of tube tone to me.
 
RVA said:
Nice story, but a little offensive. I don't play for a living but I don't feel my opinion is meaningless. I play in my bedroom and the don't consider myself a wanker. You don't need to be a pro to know.
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I think the difference is Ray…. You share your thoughts and opinions as just that. I’ve never heard you suggest if it doesn’t say Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc on the headstock the guitar is crap. The forum I came from…. I’d mention having an Epi G400. More than one cork sniffer told me to have fun with my “toy guitar” while they played their real SG because it said Gibson on the headstock. Those are the folk Robert is referring to.

That’s what’s nice about TTR. With the exception of a handful of folk that seem to enjoy suggesting the only thing a Tele is good for is fireplace wood…. We just live guitars regardless what name is on the headstock.
 
mcblink said:
You are a good dude, Robert.

At student level, kids shouldn't be worrying about the gear so much yet. I've known people to get into learning to play after having spent all the money for all the gear, and they still didn't sound good... and they were discouraged...because they still didn't know how to play.

All the greatest gear in the world won't help anyone sound great if they're not proficient at playing their instrument yet.

And then the gear itself is something entirely different that also needs to be learned. It's not going to happen overnight.

I can relate to that kid's point of view, but it never made me want to quit. It made me have dreams and gave me goals to achieve, and along the way, I just kept playing and improving.

We don't teach kids to drive by putting them behind the wheel of Lamborghinis. How many kids want to just say "screw it, guess I just won't drive at all" when they learn that they can't just have/drive a Lamborghini as a learning tool? Probably none of them.
This isn't a whole lot different.
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At the Student level I was at when I first took lessons at about 13-14 years old, the knowledge part of equipment I wish I had that would have made learning to play vs misery to a point of wanting to give up practicing, was how no one told me the Yamaha Acoustic guitar I was renting either could have played easier with some adjustments, setup, different strings etc, because the action was so high off the neck, it was nearly impossible to play it right or to not have the railroad tie gauged strings dig into my fingertips so badly, I got little enjoyment from the instrument. Once I got my 79 LP about 5-6 years later, then I learned a wee bit more about how a nice guitar should feel and play.

Simple basics of the instrument, the things to look for in a well set up one vs a train wreck, or things like Robert mentioned, how to string a guitar properly to ensure stable tuning etc should all be a part of guitar lessons and as important as the ABC's of notes, chords, techniques and theory etc.
I bet many many a student has had similar newb experiences such as I had and then had it derail their enthusiasm and made them think about quitting once the first couple lessons were history.
 
Kerry Brown said:
I always laugh when I see posts asking for recommendations of which amp to buy. 90% of the answers recommend whatever amp they have. It is usually not appropriate for the type of music the OP plays and almost always way over their budget.
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ was asking me for advice in amps she could put on her radar back last summer.

Asking her what type music she likes and wants to use the amps for was one of my first questions.
 
iblive said:
I think the difference is Ray…. You share your thoughts and opinions as just that. I’ve never heard you suggest if it doesn’t say Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc on the headstock the guitar is crap. The forum I came from…. I’d mention having an Epi G400. More than one cork sniffer told me to have fun with my “toy guitar” while they played their real SG because it said Gibson on the headstock. Those are the folk Robert is referring to.

That’s what’s nice about TTR. With the exception of a handful of folk that seem to enjoy suggesting the only thing a Tele is good for is fireplace wood…. We just live guitars regardless what name is on the headstock.
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I think your point is a valid one - a knowledge sharer is different than a snob. However, what Robert said was very different.
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
Yes there was a time when Fender stopped making tube amps.
And - the solid state amps they started making were a hideous failure.
Solid state almost put Fender out of business...

Soon after Fender realized how stupid a decision they had made.
And...went back to making tube amps. (which saved the company)

All attempts to change musicians over to solid state- have failed.
Musicians by and large want tube amps.

Why is this?
because solid state amps don't sound as good as tube amps.
Click to expand...

LOL. Opinion and biased conjecture. I see you drank the Kool Aid too.

All Fender amps currently on the line are all Made in China.

20220210_084600.jpg

The only exceptions are some of the Twin Reverbs and reissues that don't come through our facility.

Starting in 2002, Fender Hot Rod production was moved to Mexico.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
At the Student level I was at when I first took lessons at about 13-14 years old, the knowledge part of equipment I wish I had that would have made learning to play vs misery to a point of wanting to give up practicing, was how no one told me the Yamaha Acoustic guitar I was renting either could have played easier with some adjustments, setup, different strings etc, because the action was so high off the neck, it was nearly impossible to play it right or to not have the railroad tie gauged strings dig into my fingertips so badly, I got little enjoyment from the instrument. Once I got my 79 LP about 5-6 years later, then I learned a wee bit more about how a nice guitar should feel and play.

Simple basics of the instrument, the things to look for in a well set up one vs a train wreck, or things like Robert mentioned, how to string a guitar properly to ensure stable tuning etc should all be a part of guitar lessons and as important as the ABC's of notes, chords, techniques and theory etc.
I bet many many a student has had similar newb experiences such as I had and then had it derail their enthusiasm and made them think about quitting once the first couple lessons were history.
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I think this happens to something like 3 out of 4 kids. Can't even remember how many kids I used to go to school with that wanted to play but gave it up at the first sign of difficulty. I'm no stranger to crappy guitars myself lol
 
RVA said:
Nice story, but a little offensive. I don't play for a living but I don't feel my opinion is meaningless. I play in my bedroom and the don't consider myself a wanker. You don't need to be a pro to know.
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I think you missed my point, Counselor. Not at all heaping everyone into one basket.

The guys telling the lad his equipment "sucked" - IMHO - had a meaningless opinion with no basis in fact.
 
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