*RETAKE* - My Latest Vocal Effort - Dokken - Alone Again ...

Thatbastarddon said:
Definite improvement.
I’d like to reinforce something that @Iron1 mentioned above….hydrate…hydrate…hydrate. Water is super good for extending mileage from your vocals. A habit that I wish I was better about, but I typically remember for recording sessions and gigs…just not band practice….:facepalm: …but we never get together anymore anyway.
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I also hear that care for vocals from pros is often helped by tea n honey n maybe lemon. But I will verify the exact recipe. Also I found a great batch of singing lessons on you tube I can post once home.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
I also hear that care for vocals from pros is often helped by tea n honey n maybe lemon. But I will verify the exact recipe. Also I found a great batch of singing lessons on you tube I can post once home.
Click to expand...
Tea w/honey or lemon (not both at once) are great for healing/repair. Honey, and any other sugar, can act like sandpaper on your vocal chords if you drink it before performing. So, if you ever see someone who drinks soda while drinking, just know their singing days are numbered... honey coats and soothes, protects a little while they heal. Lemon constricts them a bit, but the citric acid can also hurt when you're performing.

Water is the best, and only thing, to drink when singing.
 
Sapient said:
Thanks, guys. One thing I did was just not sing it so loud ...it's sort of a beginner/amature thing to get over, I believe.

It's kinda just talking level as it should be for the most part.

:yesway::dood:
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Definitely getting better. Still sounds like you're singing from your throat/mouth, not your gut. While I'll never say never, I know a lot of professional singers, including a buddy who has multiple Grammy's, and none of them sing at talking level. The guy with the Grammys will fill an entire room with sound the way a great acoustic guitar does.

The videos posted above are great, and worth watching, but first things first, work on your breathing and projection.

First, inhale as much air as you can (without moving anything but your diaphragm - you can place one hand on it, the space right between your breastbone and stomach to feel it) and hold it in as long as possible. Then, exhale and do the same.

Second, do that again, but inhale in 2 equal bursts, hold as long as you can, then exhale in 2 equal bursts. Do this again and again, increasing to 3, then 4, then 5, then 6 bursts each way.

At first, it's a little hard to get the bursts equal because you need to learn exactly what your lung capacity is, then what half, a third, etc of it is, but you'll get there. Once you do, work on holding the inhale/exhale longer. I'm totally out of pro singing shape these days, but in my prime I could hold my inhale for about 3 minutes and 10 seconds and my exhale for just over a minute and a half. It took me months to build up to that, though.

And, before you sing, just like playing guitar, there are stretching exercises. Take your tongue and stick it out of you mouth as far to the left as it will go. Then upward, then to the right, then down. Each time, open your mouth as wide as you can to allow the tongue to extend as far as possible.

Once you have your lungs ready to power the notes, and your mouth and tongue are stretched, limber and ready, then all the performance technique stuff can come into play.

If you're truly serious about singing, you should find a vocal coach who is well versed in the music style you like - Youtube has some great stuff, but also, just like guitar, it can become an overwhelming mess of contradictory information very quickly. A vocal coach who has spent their whole career training opera singers wouldn't know what to do with someone who wants to sound like James Hatfield, for instance. Just like an aspiring country/western guitar player wouldn't be well served taking lessons from a shredder teacher. Sure, there are some shared things, but in the end the learner is better served by a teacher who is already where the learner wants to be.
 
Iron1 said:
Definitely getting better. Still sounds like you're singing from your throat/mouth, not your gut. While I'll never say never, I know a lot of professional singers, including a buddy who has multiple Grammy's, and none of them sing at talking level. The guy with the Grammys will fill an entire room with sound the way a great acoustic guitar does.

The videos posted above are great, and worth watching, but first things first, work on your breathing and projection.

First, inhale as much air as you can (without moving anything but your diaphragm - you can place one hand on it, the space right between your breastbone and stomach to feel it) and hold it in as long as possible. Then, exhale and do the same.

Second, do that again, but inhale in 2 equal bursts, hold as long as you can, then exhale in 2 equal bursts. Do this again and again, increasing to 3, then 4, then 5, then 6 bursts each way.

At first, it's a little hard to get the bursts equal because you need to learn exactly what your lung capacity is, then what half, a third, etc of it is, but you'll get there. Once you do, work on holding the inhale/exhale longer. I'm totally out of pro singing shape these days, but in my prime I could hold my inhale for about 3 minutes and 10 seconds and my exhale for just over a minute and a half. It took me months to build up to that, though.

And, before you sing, just like playing guitar, there are stretching exercises. Take your tongue and stick it out of you mouth as far to the left as it will go. Then upward, then to the right, then down. Each time, open your mouth as wide as you can to allow the tongue to extend as far as possible.

Once you have your lungs ready to power the notes, and your mouth and tongue are stretched, limber and ready, then all the performance technique stuff can come into play.

If you're truly serious about singing, you should find a vocal coach who is well versed in the music style you like - Youtube has some great stuff, but also, just like guitar, it can become an overwhelming mess of contradictory information very quickly. A vocal coach who has spent their whole career training opera singers wouldn't know what to do with someone who wants to sound like James Hatfield, for instance. Just like an aspiring country/western guitar player wouldn't be well served taking lessons from a shredder teacher. Sure, there are some shared things, but in the end the learner is better served by a teacher who is already where the learner wants to be.
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I have a friend who is a song writer and performer. She is also a vocal coach. I am sure she knows how to do the things you mention, Iron1
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
I have a friend who is a song writer and performer. She is also a vocal coach. I am sure she knows how to do the things you mention, Iron1
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She probably knows a lot more than I do. Half of my knowledge came from lessons when I first started and the other half came from the school of hard knocks. I definitely learned what not to do the hard way... :ROFLMAO:

We had one stretch where we did like 8 shows in a 10-14 day stretch or some such, don't remember exactly, but it was a lot in a small span. I got lazy about warming up and doing my exercises, thinking "well we're jamming pretty much every day, I don't need to warm up" and by the end my speaking voice had dropped about an octave and I lost some of my upper range that I never recovered. When I first started, I could mimic Geoff Tate from Queensryche pretty much note for note. After that span of shows my voice settled into the extreme metal mess it is now.
 
Iron1 said:
Definitely getting better. Still sounds like you're singing from your throat/mouth, not your gut. While I'll never say never, I know a lot of professional singers, including a buddy who has multiple Grammy's, and none of them sing at talking level. The guy with the Grammys will fill an entire room with sound the way a great acoustic guitar does.

The videos posted above are great, and worth watching, but first things first, work on your breathing and projection.

First, inhale as much air as you can (without moving anything but your diaphragm - you can place one hand on it, the space right between your breastbone and stomach to feel it) and hold it in as long as possible. Then, exhale and do the same.

Second, do that again, but inhale in 2 equal bursts, hold as long as you can, then exhale in 2 equal bursts. Do this again and again, increasing to 3, then 4, then 5, then 6 bursts each way.

At first, it's a little hard to get the bursts equal because you need to learn exactly what your lung capacity is, then what half, a third, etc of it is, but you'll get there. Once you do, work on holding the inhale/exhale longer. I'm totally out of pro singing shape these days, but in my prime I could hold my inhale for about 3 minutes and 10 seconds and my exhale for just over a minute and a half. It took me months to build up to that, though.

And, before you sing, just like playing guitar, there are stretching exercises. Take your tongue and stick it out of you mouth as far to the left as it will go. Then upward, then to the right, then down. Each time, open your mouth as wide as you can to allow the tongue to extend as far as possible.

Once you have your lungs ready to power the notes, and your mouth and tongue are stretched, limber and ready, then all the performance technique stuff can come into play.

If you're truly serious about singing, you should find a vocal coach who is well versed in the music style you like - Youtube has some great stuff, but also, just like guitar, it can become an overwhelming mess of contradictory information very quickly. A vocal coach who has spent their whole career training opera singers wouldn't know what to do with someone who wants to sound like James Hatfield, for instance. Just like an aspiring country/western guitar player wouldn't be well served taking lessons from a shredder teacher. Sure, there are some shared things, but in the end the learner is better served by a teacher who is already where the learner wants to be.
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Thanks, Iron. What's good is I can be pretty specific in vocal lingo as you are talking here. It's like I've studied and know the game it's just now that I'm starting to actually throw the ball. Need to get the "coordination" part of the game. It's good to know the talk to understand what you and other people have to say. Like ..chest, mixed, and falsetto voices, etc.

I've done some of the exercises and have watched many of the YT vids. There is good stuff there and it's what has gotten me at least to where I've gotten anyway. So I'm definitely using resources that are available. So may different tricks and custom exercises and this and that that it's hard to keep up. :)

I am using my diaphragm for support to build the compression that is needed to sing. At times my throat slips in because there is such a fine line and many times it's not know that the wrong path has been taken until it starts to hurt. I can say the main difference between my first and second take is I made sure there was no slipping into my chest voice when it's supposed to be mixed. The second take is all mixed voice and I didn't slip out like the first. Also, I fine-pointed the pitch, even though it's not 100%. It's much more "on" the second time.

I really thing it depends on what is being sung as far as talking level and filling a room. Opera, for sure, but I think rock singers sing more mixed voice which it in the middle and doesn't have "big body" frequencies to be anything more than ...narrow ..so to speak. I think you are talking vocal power where I was talking a sheer difference in near yelling and singing. The key was that what I was doing was blasting me out of my mixed voice back into chest. If you're in mixed and drop to chest it will be the "sound like poop", moments in the song where obvious straining is heard. Lol.

I'm serious to the point of just wanting to sing well for recording and possible "fun" basement bands that suck more than I do. I guess until we're all good. :) I'm too old and my/out time was years ago. There would be nowhere for me to go with it - too old and ain't doing no Bieber. (Actually that kid can slam singing from what I've heard.)

It's funny because all along this journey it's been about different approaches, modified approaches, and trial and error. Each iteration seem to move more into doing the right thing. I've just experienced something today that vocally sounds better and more "real". I'll put it out in another post at some point. I don't want hog the place constantly with this topic. It's fun and cool tossing in a piece every now and then. Everyone can PM each other "Oh poop, Sapient dropped another one. He did? Yea, he still thinks he can sing." Lol.

Thanks for the post and great info, bro!

:cheers:
 
Sapient said:
Thanks, Iron. What's good is I can be pretty specific in vocal lingo as you are talking here. It's like I've studied and know the game it's just now that I'm starting to actually throw the ball. Need to get the "coordination" part of the game. It's good to know the talk to understand what you and other people have to say. Like ..chest, mixed, and falsetto voices, etc.

I've done some of the exercises and have watched many of the YT vids. There is good stuff there and it's what has gotten me at least to where I've gotten anyway. So I'm definitely using resources that are available. So may different tricks and custom exercises and this and that that it's hard to keep up. :)

I am using my diaphragm for support to build the compression that is needed to sing. At times my throat slips in because there is such a fine line and many times it's not know that the wrong path has been taken until it starts to hurt. I can say the main difference between my first and second take is I made sure there was no slipping into my chest voice when it's supposed to be mixed. The second take is all mixed voice and I didn't slip out like the first. Also, I fine-pointed the pitch, even though it's not 100%. It's much more "on" the second time.

I really thing it depends on what is being sung as far as talking level and filling a room. Opera, for sure, but I think rock singers sing more mixed voice which it in the middle and doesn't have "big body" frequencies to be anything more than ...narrow ..so to speak. I think you are talking vocal power where I was talking a sheer difference in near yelling and singing. The key was that what I was doing was blasting me out of my mixed voice back into chest. If you're in mixed and drop to chest it will be the "sound like :poo:", moments in the song where obvious straining is heard. Lol.

I'm serious to the point of just wanting to sing well for recording and possible "fun" basement bands that suck more than I do. I guess until we're all good. :) I'm too old and my/out time was years ago. There would be nowhere for me to go with it - too old and ain't doing no Bieber. (Actually that kid can slam singing from what I've heard.)

It's funny because all along this journey it's been about different approaches, modified approaches, and trial and error. Each iteration seem to move more into doing the right thing. I've just experienced something today that vocally sounds better and more "real". I'll put it out in another post at some point. I don't want hog the place constantly with this topic. It's fun and cool tossing in a piece every now and then. Everyone can PM each other "Oh :poo:, Sapient dropped another one. He did? Yea, he still thinks he can sing." Lol.

Thanks for the post and great info, bro!

:cheers:
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All that matters is you’re having fun, brutha! And it sure sounds like you are. Cheers!
 
Iron1 said:
All that matters is you’re having fun, brutha! And it sure sounds like you are. Cheers!
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I've played guitar for almost 40 years now but the whole time I always wanted to sing. I took lessons in the late '80s and was crushed when I got not better at all. The "I can't sing" trauma went on for years. It was really bad and I thought about surgeries, travel to great trainers, ...all sorts of crazy stuff. It was all I wanted in life.

Well, I'm finally in that "realm" so to speak and it's too little too late. I'm old enough to be "over it", so it's not a big thing. I just mean it more factually than emotionally - there was the 20 to 39 years and also opportunity during the early years that are not there now but I won't cry over it at 52. It's just a bit of a bummer.

At this point I think, yes, it's about having some fun and just being able to own it if I can. I really only want one think as far as others go and that's for someone to randomly say "Wow, do you sing? yada yda". That will seal the deal for me. Not that I need the attention (at this age), but in indiscriminate of the cuff compliment does not lie. Maybe it will be some kid that does not even know how to lie yet. Lol. At any rate, I will call myself only and if that ever happens.

It hasn't happened yet. :pound-hand:
 
Sounds pretty good to me. My 2 cents, for what it might be worth, is similar to Mitch's on first go - I think it needs to be belted out more and see of the nasally part drops off.
Also, it might still be just a bit beyond your range.
This comes from someone with no technique that kinda yells in tune. Mostly backing and a bit of lead. I find if I can't eeally belt the high parts out then it is past my range.

Iron1 said:
Tea w/honey or lemon (not both at once) are great for healing/repair. Honey, and any other sugar, can act like sandpaper on your vocal chords if you drink it before performing. So, if you ever see someone who drinks soda while drinking, just know their singing days are numbered... honey coats and soothes, protects a little while they heal. Lemon constricts them a bit, but the citric acid can also hurt when you're performing.

Water is the best, and only thing, to drink when singing.
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Given how amd what I sing, a beer or 2 never goes amiss! I realize not the best thing at all.
I try to tell our main singer to not drink carbonated drinks but....I guess for her a lot of the gig is having fun and if she wants to let loose, ok then. Only problem is she can kill he voice before the end of the night so some songs don't get played.
 
Sapient said:
I've played guitar for almost 40 years now but the whole time I always wanted to sing. I took lessons in the late '80s and was crushed when I got not better at all. The "I can't sing" trauma went on for years. It was really bad and I thought about surgeries, travel to great trainers, ...all sorts of crazy stuff. It was all I wanted in life.

Well, I'm finally in that "realm" so to speak and it's too little too late. I'm old enough to be "over it", so it's not a big thing. I just mean it more factually than emotionally - there was the 20 to 39 years and also opportunity during the early years that are not there now but I won't cry over it at 52. It's just a bit of a bummer.

At this point I think, yes, it's about having some fun and just being able to own it if I can. I really only want one think as far as others go and that's for someone to randomly say "Wow, do you sing? yada yda". That will seal the deal for me. Not that I need the attention (at this age), but in indiscriminate of the cuff compliment does not lie. Maybe it will be some kid that does not even know how to lie yet. Lol. At any rate, I will call myself only and if that ever happens.

It hasn't happened yet. :pound-hand:
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Keep singing bro, only validations you need is you enjoying, the rest will come with more practice.
 
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