Gibson Custom Shop and Sweetwater Miss the Mark...

Robert Herndon said:
I'm pretty nitpicky about details. I do not see major FUBAR's like this with Fender products, but some small issues, like sharp fret ends, or nut slot depth issues do surface and it's my job to remedy them.

I'm really picky about intonation, but I discovered that on brand new guitars, the intonation is generally spot-on with no need to "temper" or "average" the values between the 12th and 3rd frets. Set it at the 12th and it's dead on the money everywhere.

We recently QC'd some Squire Classic Vibe 50's Stratocasters made in Indonesia and they are some of the best overall quality that I've seen on guitars costing 2 times as much.

Click to expand...

The most messed-up brand-new guitar out of the box that I ever bought was a Fender Custom Shop Stratocaster that I had drop shipped direct to my dealer right from Fender. I noticed finish issues with it the moment we opened the box, without even having to pick it up.
 
Q104.3 - New York's Classic Rock




Jim Kerr Rock & Roll Morning Show

Why So Many Guitarist Are Turning Away from Gibson​

By Andrew MagnottaOct 16, 2017
f79fc341-a979-4863-81b0-eea1ddc6e07b


One of the most worn out cliches in the music industry is that it's a small world, and people remember your mistakes.
But shaking a bad reputation is difficult in any industry, and that's a fact Gibson Guitars may be learning the hard way.

Over the past several years, there has been a groundswell of anger directed at the legendary guitar manufacturer. From unhappy customers to scorned endorsers, you don't have to look too far these days to find bad news about Gibson.

There are a lot of reasons Gibson's brand has been tarnished recently, but at the crux of the blowback is an alleged dip in quality control.
A shining example of this was over the summer when Gibson unveiled the 2017 Les Paul Standard with a photo that showed an obvious ding in the $4,799 guitar's finish.
Earlier this month, a high-profile former Gibson endorser, Mastodon guitarist Bill Kelliher, revealed why he stopped working with Gibson and instead jumped ship to ESP—just like Metallica frontman James Hetfield before him.
"They kept f***ing up my guitars that I was asking for," Kelliher said in no uncertain terms to Ultimate Guitar. "I didn't ask for a lot – I just had a few certain things that I would like with my guitar – I told them I didn’t want it chambered and they made my second guitar chambered."

He goes on, painting a picture of disarray at Gibson, saying the A&R department was constantly turning over making it impossible for him to maintain a relationship.
Further, Kelliher's signature guitars were being shipping without being properly set up. He says he would regularly get messages from fans asking why their guitars didn't sound right.
"They weren’t even tuning the guitars to my settings or specifications – just little things like that."
But customer and artist relations isn't all of it. In 2016, Moody's Investors Service downgraded Gibson's credit rating outlook to Caa2 or "negative," reporting that the company owes over $80 million to a supplier and $45 million in accounts payable.
Outstanding debt could be a reason for a dip in quality, meaning Gibson is trying to increase production and sales at the expense of the details. A Gawker piece goes even deeper into what's amiss, and it's all pretty damning.

"Gibson faces two main problems: their employees hate them (particularly CEO Henry Juszkiewicz), and their customers think they’re crap."
One woman told Gawker she got to know Juszkiewicz over the course of a job interview.
"The CEO is HORRIBLE — mean, nasty, uber-controlling," she wrote to Gawker. "If anyone in the company dares to have a different idea than his, you can pretty much guarantee that they will be fired - on the spot."
YouTube gear reviewer Sean Pierce Johnson — an avowed Gibson fan — said in a video this summer that Juszkiewicz "doesn't come across as the kind of guy that gets guitars."
"He kind of looks at Gibson as more a consumer electronics [company]. Which is evident in that earlier this year Gibson showed off their modern double-cut at the CES [International Consumer Electronics Show] in Vegas a mere two weeks before the winter NAMM [National Association of Music Merchants] show
 
Session 5 said:
Q104.3 - New York's Classic Rock's Classic Rock




Jim Kerr Rock & Roll Morning Show

Why So Many Guitarist Are Turning Away from Gibson​

By Andrew MagnottaOct 16, 2017
f79fc341-a979-4863-81b0-eea1ddc6e07b


One of the most worn out cliches in the music industry is that it's a small world, and people remember your mistakes.
But shaking a bad reputation is difficult in any industry, and that's a fact Gibson Guitars may be learning the hard way.

Over the past several years, there has been a groundswell of anger directed at the legendary guitar manufacturer. From unhappy customers to scorned endorsers, you don't have to look too far these days to find bad news about Gibson.

There are a lot of reasons Gibson's brand has been tarnished recently, but at the crux of the blowback is an alleged dip in quality control.
A shining example of this was over the summer when Gibson unveiled the 2017 Les Paul Standard with a photo that showed an obvious ding in the $4,799 guitar's finish.
Earlier this month, a high-profile former Gibson endorser, Mastodon guitarist Bill Kelliher, revealed why he stopped working with Gibson and instead jumped ship to ESP—just like Metallica frontman James Hetfield before him.
"They kept f***ing up my guitars that I was asking for," Kelliher said in no uncertain terms to Ultimate Guitar. "I didn't ask for a lot – I just had a few certain things that I would like with my guitar – I told them I didn’t want it chambered and they made my second guitar chambered."

He goes on, painting a picture of disarray at Gibson, saying the A&R department was constantly turning over making it impossible for him to maintain a relationship.
Further, Kelliher's signature guitars were being shipping without being properly set up. He says he would regularly get messages from fans asking why their guitars didn't sound right.
"They weren’t even tuning the guitars to my settings or specifications – just little things like that."
But customer and artist relations isn't all of it. In 2016, Moody's Investors Service downgraded Gibson's credit rating outlook to Caa2 or "negative," reporting that the company owes over $80 million to a supplier and $45 million in accounts payable.
Outstanding debt could be a reason for a dip in quality, meaning Gibson is trying to increase production and sales at the expense of the details. A Gawker piece goes even deeper into what's amiss, and it's all pretty damning.

"Gibson faces two main problems: their employees hate them (particularly CEO Henry Juszkiewicz), and their customers think they’re crap."
One woman told Gawker she got to know Juszkiewicz over the course of a job interview.
"The CEO is HORRIBLE — mean, nasty, uber-controlling," she wrote to Gawker. "If anyone in the company dares to have a different idea than his, you can pretty much guarantee that they will be fired - on the spot."
YouTube gear reviewer Sean Pierce Johnson — an avowed Gibson fan — said in a video this summer that Juszkiewicz "doesn't come across as the kind of guy that gets guitars."
"He kind of looks at Gibson as more a consumer electronics [company]. Which is evident in that earlier this year Gibson showed off their modern double-cut at the CES [International Consumer Electronics Show] in Vegas a mere two weeks before the winter NAMM [National Association of Music Merchants] show
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Now, Norm...No matter the defect(s) present in the subject guitar that started this thread (and trust me, I am not excusing it in any way), I don't think it fair to dig up 5-year-old reporting on the issues that were present under the previous regime. Things have changed pretty dramatically under the new ownership/management, and as of late they are selling as many of the things as they can make as fast as they can make them. And the three I have bought since they took over have been flawless.

Will there be problems? Yes, of course. All manufacturers have them. Godin has a warranty and service department too, so that would seem to imply not every one of them goes out the door completely perfect, y'know. Nobody is perfect every single time.
 
gball said:
The most messed-up brand-new guitar out of the box that I ever bought was a Fender Custom Shop Stratocaster that I had drop shipped direct to my dealer right from Fender. I noticed finish issues with it the moment we opened the box, without even having to pick it up.
Click to expand...

My worst brand-new guitar out of the box was also a Fender Elite Stratocaster. I don't blame Fender though; the only issue was severe fret sprout. It was unplayable unless you wanted hamburger instead of fingers.

Fender immediately took care of it by having me take it to an authorized Fender repair shop and getting a full fret dressing, crown and polish plus a set up for free!
 
eSGEe said:
Gibson Guitar employees earn $53,500 annually on average, or $26 per hour, which is 21% lower than the national salary average of $66,000 per year.Jan 19, 2022

Fender Musical Instruments employees earn $63,000 annually on average, or $30 per hour, which is 5% lower than the national salary average of $66,000 per year.

Which employees you think are "hungrier" and trying harder?
Click to expand...
A Gibson employee living in Tennessee can live a lot more comfortably with $53K, than a Fender employee living in Southern California at $63K... :whistle:
 
gball said:
Now, Norm...No matter the defect(s) present in the subject guitar that started this thread (and trust me, I am not excusing it in any way), I don't think it fair to dig up 5-year-old reporting on the issues that were present under the previous regime. Things have changed pretty dramatically under the new ownership/management, and as of late they are selling as many of the things as they can make as fast as they can make them. And the three I have bought since they took over have been flawless.

Will there be problems? Yes, of course. All manufacturers have them. Godin has a warranty and service department too, so that would seem to imply not every one of them goes out the door completely perfect, y'know. Nobody is perfect every single time.
Click to expand...


All I am pointing out through this info , which I am aware, its about 4years old , is some of the problems that Gibson has had , and I am sure this is happening in some of these same areas today. Not bashing, but maybe if Gibson would work harder at some of these issues they would be in a better place.. I believe from the past is brought through right up to now , for instance disgruntled Employees , its obvious that this is happening, thats why these guitars are being shipped out like this. I believe what ESGE said who is more hungry, I believe it would be better for Gibson to move much of their operations overseas, where people are very happy to have a job. overseas guitars are very well made most of the ones i have seen. I think employees are probably their largest problem. Just saying.
 
Sp8ctre said:
My worst brand-new guitar out of the box was also a Fender Elite Stratocaster. I don't blame Fender though; the only issue was severe fret sprout. It was unplayable unless you wanted hamburger instead of fingers.

Fender immediately took care of it by having me take it to an authorized Fender repair shop and getting a full fret dressing, crown and polish plus a set up for free!
Click to expand...

That's certainly disappointing.
 
syscokid said:
Oh come on now y'all!!! The guitar costs $6700. If you want, or need, those six screws to secure the tuners, then you'll have to pay $7000... or $50 per screw! Genius... o_O! Plus, omitting those six heavy screws counteracts the notorious SG neck-dive! More genius... o_Oo_O!!
Click to expand...

It is not VINTAGE, Greg. Once it hits 40 years old all the parts like knobs and screws and nut, etc will run $200 apiece and the pups will be selling for $1000 a pop.
 
gball said:
Now, Norm...No matter the defect(s) present in the subject guitar that started this thread (and trust me, I am not excusing it in any way), I don't think it fair to dig up 5-year-old reporting on the issues that were present under the previous regime. Things have changed pretty dramatically under the new ownership/management, and as of late they are selling as many of the things as they can make as fast as they can make them. And the three I have bought since they took over have been flawless.

Will there be problems? Yes, of course. All manufacturers have them. Godin has a warranty and service department too, so that would seem to imply not every one of them goes out the door completely perfect, y'know. Nobody is perfect every single time.
Click to expand...
Very true, but some warranty & service departments are much busier than others.

It's a bummer for sure. I know I'd be unhappy.
 
Sp8ctre said:
Massive Fail...

Click to expand...
OK
there is something fundamentally wrong with this.

If Gibson Custom Shop built a Les Paul reissue, they would not have built it with Grover tuners to start with.
They would have used period correct factory tuners, which are not Grover tuners.

And so...I would not race to the conclusion that Gibson had anything to do with this.

I'm thinking there is more to this than what has been seen or heard.

tuners.png

This is the tuner which Gibson would have used to build a LP reissue.
Not Grover.
 
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Session 5 said:
All I am pointing out through this info , which I am aware, its about 4years old , is some of the problems that Gibson has had , and I am sure this is happening in some of these same areas today. Not bashing, but maybe if Gibson would work harder at some of these issues they would be in a better place.. I believe from the past is brought through right up to now , for instance disgruntled Employees , its obvious that this is happening, thats why these guitars are being shipped out like this. I believe what ESGE said who is more hungry, I believe it would be better for Gibson to move much of their operations overseas, where people are very happy to have a job. overseas guitars are very well made most of the ones i have seen. I think employees are probably their largest problem. Just saying.
Click to expand...
I think if Gibson moved production overseas there would be a massive backlash....even if QC improved.
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
OK
there is something fundamentally wrong with this.

If Gibson Custom Shop built a Les Paul reissue, they would not have built it with Grover tuners to start with.
They would have used period correct factory tuners, which are not Grover tuners.

And so...I would not race to the conclusion that Gibson had anything to do with this.

I'm thinking there is more to this than what has been seen or heard.
Click to expand...

Did you notice at the beginning of the video that the guitar was a special order?
 
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