Mesa Amps:

Robert Herndon said:
A few weeks ago. I was working in a session and was invited to play a Fillmore 100watt. I didn't post my reaction here for fear of being burned at the tonal stake, but I was absolutely floored by the tone.

It was just gain per se, but it was a certain character of the gain structure in that there was this full, edgy bite that I was getting without a lot of gain!!!!

…

TBTH, I can't explain it any other way, but it's the first time that a lower gain setting really made me take notice and I've come to realize that maybe I've relied on gain production to get me to somewhere I couldn't get to any other way.

I wish I could explain this better...
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I’ve been thinking about this statement a bit. I totally get what you’re saying.

(Incidentally, I don’t know why you’d fear getting “burned at the tonal stake.” Your description sounds like statements many of those here have made for quite some time!)

Anyhoo…let me offer my theory, because it is very much like how I’d describe my experience with my new amp.

When a signal is clipped as it overdrives a gain section, the peaks will be the first to go. The resultant signal is going to sound thicker as there is less difference in amplitude between the fundamental and the other harmonics.

However, when your amplifier naturally produces a more harmonically rich signal (which is still technically “distortion” even though it is not distortion resulting from an overdriven signal) you will still have a thicker sound, even though no overdrive and clipping are occuring.

So, my guess at your being impressed with the Fillmore, even with less distorted signals, may be partially due to the fuller tone inherent in the amp.

Just a theory.
 
smitty_p said:
I’ve been thinking about this statement a bit. I totally get what you’re saying.

(Incidentally, I don’t know why you’d fear getting “burned at the tonal stake.” Your description sounds like statements many of those here have made for quite some time!)

Anyhoo…let me offer my theory, because it is very much like how I’d describe my experience with my new amp.

When a signal is clipped as it overdrives a gain section, the peaks will be the first to go. The resultant signal is going to sound thicker as there is less difference in amplitude between the fundamental and the other harmonics.

However, when your amplifier naturally produces a more harmonically rich signal (which is still technically “distortion” even though it is not distortion resulting from an overdriven signal) you will still have a thicker sound, even though no overdrive and clipping are occuring.

So, my guess at your being impressed with the Fillmore, even with less distorted signals, may be partially due to the fuller tone inherent in the amp.

Just a theory.
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You may very well be right!!!!

Lately, I've spent a great deal of time listening to isolated guitar tracks. One of my all time favorite (and early) tone influences was the rhythm guitar on Def Leppard's Foolin', in particular, the staccato phrasing in the chorus section.

After really listening, I've discovered that it's actually a very clean tone, but it's also very dynamic and I'm starting to lean more towards that sort of tone.
 
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smitty_p said:
I’ve been thinking about this statement a bit. I totally get what you’re saying.

(Incidentally, I don’t know why you’d fear getting “burned at the tonal stake.” Your description sounds like statements many of those here have made for quite some time!)

Anyhoo…let me offer my theory, because it is very much like how I’d describe my experience with my new amp.

When a signal is clipped as it overdrives a gain section, the peaks will be the first to go. The resultant signal is going to sound thicker as there is less difference in amplitude between the fundamental and the other harmonics.

However, when your amplifier naturally produces a more harmonically rich signal (which is still technically “distortion” even though it is not distortion resulting from an overdriven signal) you will still have a thicker sound, even though no overdrive and clipping are occuring.

So, my guess at your being impressed with the Fillmore, even with less distorted signals, may be partially due to the fuller tone inherent in the amp.

Just a theory.
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Robert Herndon said:
You may very well be right!!!!

Lately, I've spent a great deal of time listening to isolated guitar tracks. One of my all time favorite (and early) tone influences was the rhythm guitar on Def Leppard's Foolin', in particular, the staccato phrasing in the chorus section.

After really listening, I've discovered that it's actually a very clean tone, but it's also very dynamic and I'm starting to lean more towards that sort of tone.
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I get what you’re saying.

Another thought is that some of these amps may just do a better job at replicating and amplifying the full bandwidth of the vibrating string, producing a fuller-sounding tone.

Again, just a theory..,
 
smitty_p said:
I get what you’re saying.

Another thought is that some of these amps may just do a better job at replicating and amplifying the full bandwidth of the vibrating string, producing a fuller-sounding tone.

Again, just a theory..,
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It's frustrating that I don't fully understand this, but I'll tell you that the new Gibson Les Paul 50's Standard is a huge part of my sound changing.
 
Session 5 said:
Sweet Tele! he knows how to make it work!
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Not even close to a Telecaster, except in appearance. A Telecaster's tone is a byproduct of two things - where the pickup is located along the string's speaking length and the 25.50" scal length.

This Music Man - second only in hideousness to a Gibson Moderne - is a 25.50" scale length guitar - basically a twin humbucker Charvel- for all intents and purposes.

EVH has said in numerous interviews that he placed the humbucker on his Frankenstein "in the same place it is on a Les Paul," so, it appears that Peavey followed suit on the MM...

On the John 5 Telecasters, the low 'E' pole piece on the bobbin closest to the nut is in about the same position as the low 'E' pole on a stock Telecaster, which moves his bridge-most bobbin even closer to the bridge than on a Les Paul, so the tone is here again changed by where the pickup rests along the string's speaking length.
 
HAHA, Norm, that is no Tele. AND if you ask me, Ray, Ramo, Goo, Dave Sloven, Gball, RobertH etc, a guitar with H H, HS or any other H on it is not really a Tele either. The guitar may be a Tele Shaped instrument, but it is no Tele. History shows the Esquire 1 pup guitar was first, Then came the 2nd single pup and that BRIDGE and Tele was born.

I kind of look at H and HS Tele's as basically a Strat minus the belly cut and extra pup.

This fella's Music Man EVH style guitar reminds me more of a Skewed Lester with a Trem, or a PRS style guitar with a Trem vs any stretch of it being a Tele, Mr Norm.

Good video to showcase the Fillmore's tones. I agree.
 
Robert Herndon said:
Not even close to a Telecaster, except in appearance. A Telecaster's tone is a byproduct of two things - where the pickup is located along the string's speaking length and the 25.50" scal length.

This Music Man - second only in hideousness to a Gibson Moderne - is a 25.50" scale length guitar - basically a twin humbucker Charvel- for all intents and purposes.

EVH has said in numerous interviews that he placed the humbucker on his Frankenstein "in the same place it is on a Les Paul," so, it appears that Peavey followed suit on the MM...

On the John 5 Telecasters, the low 'E' pole piece on the bobbin closest to the nut is in about the same position as the low 'E' pole on a stock Telecaster, which moves his bridge-most bobbin even closer to the bridge than on a Les Paul, so the tone is here again changed by where the pickup rests along the string's speaking length.
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HAHA Robert, you and I were cooking the same stew simultaneously but with a few different words added.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
HAHA Robert, you and I were cooking the same stew simultaneously but with a few different words added.
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Yeah, they are miles away from a Tele. And play better than any Fender (or similar) guitar ever made - damn those EBMMs are built so freaking well. I'd love to have one, just to have a guitar with a whammy, but they are so expensive there's no way I would pony up.
 
Robert Herndon said:
Love those tones!!!

Pete Willis and his Hamer Standard!!!

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Def Leppard began with 'On Through The NIght' and ended with 'High And Dry' for me. They were two of my favorite records from the early '80s (and incidentally I was lucky enough to see them play several times with the original lineup and they just killed) but when Willis left the band, and Mutt Lange ascended the rest of the way from the depths of pop-rock hell - he tried to ruin 'High And Dry' but fortunately for all of us couldn't kill what were really great songs courtesy of Pete - I lost interest in a big, big hurry. Pyromania rocks about as hard as an an Air Supply album. No thanks.
 
gball said:
Def Leppard began with 'On Through The NIght' and ended with 'High And Dry' for me. They were two of my favorite records from the early '80s (and incidentally I was lucky enough to see them play several times with the original lineup and they just killed) but when Willis left the band, and Mutt Lange ascended the rest of the way from the depths of pop-rock hell - he tried to ruin 'High And Dry' but fortunately for all of us couldn't kill what were really great songs courtesy of Pete - I lost interest in a big, big hurry. Pyromania rocks about as hard as an an Air Supply album. No thanks.
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I loved everything they did, even the more 'poppy' music from the Vivian Campbell era, but for me, 'Pyromania' was the pinnacle of production and the guitar sounds were simply fabulous. The mix and the separation, panning and depth of the tracks is still an incredible experience on headphones.

When my friends first handed me the album 'Pyromania' in 1983 and we started spinning it, everyone wanted to know "who's the guitar players???"

My question to them was, "Who is the producer!!!!"

I think I've always had a great interest in production, and I learned a lot first-hand, sitting next to Jim Shaw at Buck Owen's Studios on Chester Avenue in Bakersfield, during the times my Mom was recording with The Buckaroos.

 
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gball said:
Yeah, they are miles away from a Tele. And play better than any Fender (or similar) guitar ever made - damn those EBMMs are built so freaking well. I'd love to have one, just to have a guitar with a whammy, but they are so expensive there's no way I would pony up.
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G. Get Adrian to find you one in FL for dirt cheap and mail it to you.
 
gball said:
Yeah, they are miles away from a Tele. And play better than any Fender (or similar) guitar ever made - damn those EBMMs are built so freaking well. I'd love to have one, just to have a guitar with a whammy, but they are so expensive there's no way I would pony up.
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I can't stand to look at them. I know that's no true evaluation standard, but I find them hideous and unbalanced to play. the only thing I will give them is the 1.650" nut width was a step in the right direction.
 
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