Acoustic Pickup Advice.

Mr Grumpy

Mr Grumpy

Ambassador of Comings and Goings
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A friend who's an excellent player and gigs a couple of times a week, reckons his old Bill Lawrence acoustic pickup (I think it's 20+ years old) isn't really picking up the nuances of his sounds well, and asked me what I'd recommend. I said, I don't know but I know some fellas that do!

Thus, he probably wants to spend between $50 and $150 just to put something in the soundhole or similar.

Any advice/suggestions?

Thank you.
 
I'll recommend the Baggs Lyric... it's a microphone, it gets mounted inside the guitar under the bridge plate.
It's more expensive than the budget limit you mention, and ought to be professionally installed. But if you're a
working musician, it's a necessary expense. The guitar's tone will be so much better, your music will come across
better and that is actually priceless.

I took my old 1975 Mossman Dred in to Dave Collins at Ann Arbor Guitars, and showed him my old Fishman "Elipse Blend"
system with the under-saddle Piezo and the gooseneck mic... and I asked him if there was something more modernistic
that would sound better and give better service. He described the Lyric, and I left my prized six string with him. He removed
the old piezo, and made a new bone saddle, inserted right down into the bridge slot the way it was designed to be. No piezo
necessary with the Lyric. Then he installed the new pickup. My old road warrior sounds so much better... Grumpy old guitarists
always said that adding that pickup under the bridge saddle would suck tone, and they were right. But we did what we had to
do, with the technology of the time.

Times are different now. I was actually happy with my Fishman Elipse Blend system, and it gave good service, but I like
the Baggs Lyric much better. My guitar sounds better acoustically without the piezo. I run it through a Fishman Platinum Plus Pro-EQ
as a pre-amp. I think you can plug the Lyric straight into a PA, but I own the Pro-EQ and am used to using it, and it works fine.

LR Baggs Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone with Preamp

LR Baggs Lyric Acoustic Guitar Microphone with Preamp (897042002945) - Product Reviews and Prices - Shopping.com

L.R. Baggs Lyric Review
 
I play my acoustics through this paddle board:
Amber pedalboard 2016@100.jpg
I liked the sound of my Mossman dred so much after installing the lyric microphone that I
bought another one, and had Collins install it in my 1936 Martin 0-17. I have owned that
guitar since like 1985, and had resolutely refused to mod it or install electronics until now.

The Baggs is a non-invasive mod. You have to ream out the rear peg hole, but that can be
easily reversed with an ebony plug, and the old end pin back in again. Nothing is screwed to
the guitar, and it's easily returned to stock. That little parlor guitar is the one in my avatar.
She rings like a bell, and now she rings louder and I'm not tethered to a microphone's cone
of influence.
 
^ not always possible in Korea. Most places have all the amps, PA, etc, ready, but they don't really do miking well if at all.

Col Mustard said:
I'll recommend the Baggs Lyric...
Click to expand...
Col Mustard said:
The Baggs is a non-invasive mod.
Click to expand...

Great advice, Col, exactly what I was looking for. I've passed the info onto my friend, and we're gonna go shopping next week after the holiday weekend (I think most shops are closed this weekend, here strange).
 
There is another alternative that I read about on the Martin Guitar forum, it's called the K & K PWM pickup system.
It's even more non-invasive because it uses a small jack fitted into the existing endpin hole. It uses a 1/8" plug instead
of the good ol' 1/4" plug we all use on guitars and other gear. Here's a forum discussion of it:

Pickups for Vintage Martin Guitars - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

I wouldn't have enough confidence in that tiny thing to be durable enough for professional use, but lots of cork sniffin'
Martin guitar enthusiasts seem to swear by it. *shrugs ...Me, I'm happy with the Baggs system. I've been using mine
onstage for several years now. The tone from my old Martin 0-17 is so distinct that sometimes the soundman comes up
after a show and wants to look her over. To me that's a testimonial to the tone rendered by the pickup, as well as the
native tone of this mahogany parlor size guitar. She is surprisingly loud and bold for such a small instrument.
 
Col Mustard said:
There is another alternative that I read about on the Martin Guitar forum, it's called the K & K PWM pickup system.
It's even more non-invasive because it uses a small jack fitted into the existing endpin hole. It uses a 1/8" plug instead
of the good ol' 1/4" plug we all use on guitars and other gear. Here's a forum discussion of it:

Pickups for Vintage Martin Guitars - The Acoustic Guitar Forum

I wouldn't have enough confidence in that tiny thing to be durable enough for professional use, but lots of cork sniffin'
Martin guitar enthusiasts seem to swear by it. *shrugs ...Me, I'm happy with the Baggs system. I've been using mine
onstage for several years now. The tone from my old Martin 0-17 is so distinct that sometimes the soundman comes up
after a show and wants to look her over. To me that's a testimonial to the tone rendered by the pickup, as well as the
native tone of this mahogany parlor size guitar. She is surprisingly loud and bold for such a small instrument.
Click to expand...

Mom has a 1978 Takemine with some sort of internal, active pickup and it sounds pretty good......
 
large.jpg

GHS internal mount microphone
c.$80
9886822.jpg

GHS External mount
c. $100
 
that external mount looks like a great non-invasive idea,
but I would knock that across the stage for sure. or else catch my
sleeve on it and end up sitting in the orchestra mosh pit.
 
Thank you Biddlin and Col. for the suggestions; I've sent them all over to my mate (he played a local open mic night the other day and did some lovely Blues with his old Fender).

We're driving over to an area that has a dozen music shops tomorrow (same place I got the SG Faded), and armed with this knowledge/advice we'll have a good look around.
 
^ well, Col. My mate is a cheap git (Canadian), and has not yet decided. We went for a looksee at the local guitar shops and they had a decent non-intrusive sound hole style (I think it was an L.R. Baggs, but can't exactly remember although I'm sure it was a good quality item that gets good reviews) for around $100. It was in a shop where the owner is a luthier with all the equipment and also a Taylor dealer - he seemed like the real deal, and said he'd install it for free. I would have gone with that, and me mate nearly did, he just couldn't brush the moths of the glued tight wallet. The guitar is actually an interesting beaten up 1970s Fender 12 string that's being played as a 6 string and sounds really good - pretty easy to play too; the neck isn't too wide.

I'll update the thread (hopefully with some pictures) i the deal ever gets done!
 
I really don't play acoustic guitar very often. Lately I have had the need to use my one real acoustic more often. I have an Ovation that is not a real acoustic guitar, I have a Fender Resonator that in the classic sense not an acoustic guitar. I have a Sea Gull original 6 that is a true wooden acoustic guitar. I am not wild about it and only play it when I need to. I am not your camp fire kinda guy.
I have things coming up that I will be playing one of them Stone Age jobs a lot. I hate cutaways and electronics on an acoustic guitar. Just don't dig it. Now the adventure of buying an acoustic guitar.
I called up the guy I know at Pittsburgh Guitars and after some words I bought a Martin D28. Like I said to my buddy at the guitar shop, no electronics and no electronics. I need to make this thing loud, and the pickup thing takes way the acoustic charm. I looked and pups and no dice. Baggs seems to do the best job as far as I can tell. I came close to getting on but that little voice said go on a wild killing spree. Enough of these little voices, gets real crazy fast. So I bought another Shure 57 and the stuff that you should have to mic a guitar. It still sounds like an acoustic guitar. That is the way I am going and I hope no one laughs, I'm hanging but a thread now.
 
I'm not laughing... guitarists have been flogging this same dead horse for the last
forty years at least. ever since we saw (and heard) the first Barcus Berry stick-em pickup.

My experience: microphones lack presence, and unless you nail your shoes to the floor in
the exact right place, your stage presence varies in an annoying way that detracts from your
music.

My music partner of 40 plus years has a closed mind on the subject. So he struggles with feedback
and bass roll-off and lack of presence... at every show. Some sound men know how to properly mic
a guitar and how to mix that signal with vocals, electric bass and other plugged in acoustics.
But not all. In Folk venues some of the sound crews do know, but on stages that do mostly rock or
Country they may not.

The microphone is always the limiting factor. When we do a sound check to play outside at a large
venue, I tell the sound guys to get my partner's guitar mic set as loud as it can go without feedback,
and then we mix all the other signals so they don't drown that out. It limits the reach of our sound...
you can perceive it from the stage. How far away can they hear us? How far out can they ignore us?
There's always a visible line where the limit is. That is dictated by the microphone, and the monitors
and the mains. I confess not to understand it, because some venues have no problem with that, and
others do. *shrugs

Having found a great setup that actually does NOT take away the acoustic charm, I simply plug my guitar
in and enjoy lots of presence and no feedback, and use my acoustic pedal board with stomp tuner, reverb,
chorus and EQ to great effect. So do almost all the other pros I know, who are on the same level as we
are and play the same kind of venues. No hassles, unless your battery dies right after the sound check.

*laughs... that has happened to me of course. But the self locking method of installing strings helps me
in that dire situation, so I can crank my strings loose, reach inside, change the durn 9 volt in its little velcro
pouch, tune to pitch and be ready again while my partner does a spoken word piece and a song. He feels
mighty superior when I've got technical problems and he doesn't. But since I usually change my batt'ries
regularly, this scenario is very rare. Mostly he's got technical problems due to microphonics, and I don't.
 
IMG_5734.JPG This a very old thing that is new to me. I found a mic really sounds the best but hold me back when playing certain Pink Floyd songs. I walk away from the mic, I don't want to walk into it. I put a Baggs pickup on it and that sounds great. Old question that I avoided because I never had to ask it.
 
Right ee-oh...

one thing I forgot to say in my tirade above is this: When we play a venue that has sound crew
who understand how to mix the signal of a mic'd Martin D-35... My partner's Martin sounds
awesome. Because it is awesome, and it always sounds awesome, until he loses his concentration
and moves his arse out of the proper cone of influence for the mic he uses. Then it's a train wreck.

I persuaded him to buy a pair of good condenser microphones. I forget which kind he got, maybe
Audio Technica... now he can set both of those up in a stereo rig that seems almost like what we
do in the studio. The two mikes make his signal easier for sound guys to handle, and it still gives
a really nice indication of the acoustic sound of the D-35.

But me, I prefer my Baggs Lyric and my paddle board, and the hassle free system gets my
signal out to the audience to great effect. That's all I want.
 
Col Mustard said:
Right ee-oh...

one thing I forgot to say in my tirade above is this: When we play a venue that has sound crew
who understand how to mix the signal of a mic'd Martin D-35... My partner's Martin sounds
awesome. Because it is awesome, and it always sounds awesome, until he loses his concentration
and moves his arse out of the proper cone of influence for the mic he uses. Then it's a train wreck.

I persuaded him to buy a pair of good condenser microphones. I forget which kind he got, maybe
Audio Technica... now he can set both of those up in a stereo rig that seems almost like what we
do in the studio. The two mikes make his signal easier for sound guys to handle, and it still gives
a really nice indication of the acoustic sound of the D-35.

But me, I prefer my Baggs Lyric and my paddle board, and the hassle free system gets my
signal out to the audience to great effect. That's all I want.[/QUO

What do you think about the new to me Acoustic Amps? I run my Mandolins in my Line 6 pod and out my monitors. Years ago I ran everything in to my AC30, no problems and I knew nothing of matching power tubes. I would just put another one in from me parts box. Lights up and ready to go for another year or so. Now I have meters coming out my meters.
Click to expand...
 
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