Modeling v. Valve amps: The modern debate

Some real truth there, my friend.

As a follow-up: I took the Katana to a jam over the weekend and it was very eye opening, as this is the first time I have actually attempted to play a modeling amp at gigging/jam volume. First, and perhaps most surprising, is it's power section reacted very much like a tube amp to volume settings and honestly got better and better sounding (up until it was so loud that it was unusable - I just had to dime the thing once to find out!). Backed off to normal jam/small gig volumes you'd be hard pressed to hear a difference in the way the power amp reacted to the guitar volume versus a tube amp. That was shocking to me.

Now, I have to eat some crow and say that I was very wrong about the nature of the "crunch" and "lead" models. They are very good and very usable at volume (I still think they both sound pretty lifeless at low volume so for practicing I will stick with the "brown" model). The crunch is modeled on a Marshall JMP if I had to guess (they don't tell you), and with the gain about half way up and the Blues Driver engaged with just a touch of dirt in front it was very, very convincing. I spent most of the 3-1/2 hour jam on this setting and got more than a few comments about the quality of the tone (I am sure the WGS speaker had some small hand in this). I was playing my Les Paul Traditional, for reference, but I tried the same settings at home later with my ASAT and got similarly excellent results.

Now, let me be clear that while the quality of tones are extremely good it was not as rich and detailed a sound as a high quality tube amp. But...that all goes out the window when the rest of the guys kick in, and for what it is I am very pleasantly surprised with the amp. It's a great grab-and-go box and is starting to change my mind about modelers to some extent. This is the third modeling amp I have owned but the first that sounded like an actual guitar amp and now I think I am liking the fact that I have another option.
Hey gball do you find that the Katana 50 only having two presets is limiting if you are jamming with others?
Would the 4 presets on the 100 be a better option to have?
I really like the 50 for both sound and price and the volume it can reach is more than I'll ever need.
I would happily use the amp as a grab and go option and a platform for a couple of pedals so I guess the switching isn't a deal breaker but...
 
This topic has got me interested. It has been a year or so since I retired my Line 6 Pod XT Live. I never used it much. Just after I got it used I bought a Blackstar HT1RH. I bought the Pod to use for practice with headphones and I prefer the Blackstar. Yesterday I pulled it out to see if I could live with modelling. So far I've only used it with headphones. If I was to use it live I would go direct into the board so I figure headphones would be the best test rather than in front of an amp. I reset it to the factory presets and started playing. There are definitely some cool tones. Out of 128 presets there are probably five or six that I could use as is. There are another five or six I may try to modify to see if they can be improved. There is another bank of 128 I can design my own. I may play with that a bit. So far I find it pretty sterile but as was mentioned in an earlier post in a mix that would probably not be noticeable. I also find that the reason I quit using it still applies. It is way to complicated with way too many options. Rather than spending time practicing I am spending time fiddling. That can be fun but it doesn't help when I'm trying to learn new songs. Anyway I'm going to give this a couple of weeks to figure out what's usable then try it at a live jam to see how that works.
 
Ok after a week of not turning on any of my amps I couldn't stand it any more. I spent hours with the pod hooked up to my Mac trying to come up with a sound I could live with. All my practice was acoustic or the pod. I spent several hours jamming to backing tracks. This after noon I decided to power up the Blackstar. It is so much better it isn't funny. There is no way I can live with the sterile sound. It sounds artificial. Jamming to a backing track was better but even there something was off. For me a tube amp still wins.
 
For me a tube amp still wins.

The tube amps are hard to beat. My primary DSL40C has 7025-WA preamp tubes, Electro-Harmonix EL-34's and a 90 watt Creamback. It has a very rich and unique sound. The Blackstar ID260-TVP is quieter and more versatile, but everyone who hears that DSL wants it...
 
Ok after a week of not turning on any of my amps I couldn't stand it any more. I spent hours with the pod hooked up to my Mac trying to come up with a sound I could live with. All my practice was acoustic or the pod. I spent several hours jamming to backing tracks. This after noon I decided to power up the Blackstar. It is so much better it isn't funny. There is no way I can live with the sterile sound. It sounds artificial. Jamming to a backing track was better but even there something was off. For me a tube amp still wins.
That is a genuine effort for certain. But surely there is some grey area between a POD and an all -tube Blackstar. I feel like the POD is intended more for convenience than for quality.
 
That is a genuine effort for certain. But surely there is some grey area between a POD and an all -tube Blackstar. I feel like the POD is intended more for convenience than for quality.
The guy I bought the Pod from is a professional musician. He has several. This one was a backup that the backlight for the LCD had burnt out so he sold it to me very cheap. He plays in a duo with a percussionist. They run his acoustic guitar through a Pod XT live. His tone is very good. When I got it all of his presets were programmed in but they didn't sound that great with an electric guitar. He said it took him a couple of years to get the presets how he wanted them. I just don't have that kind of patience. My thought was the Pod XT Live is way easier to carry with me than an amp. Sadly my back will have to live with me carrying an amp for now.
 
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The guy I bought the Pod from is a professional musician. He has several. This one was a backup that the backlight for the LCD had burnt out so he sold it to me very cheap. He plays in a duo with a percussionist. They run his acoustic guitar through a Pod XT live. His tone is very good. When I got it all of his presets were programmed in but they didn't sound that great with an electric guitar. He said it took him a couple of years to get the presets how he wanted them. I just don't have that kind of patience. My thought was the Pod XT Live is way easier to carry with me than an amp. Sadly my back will have to live with me carrying an amp for now.

I have a Pod X3 Live, which is the model that superseded the XT. Are you setting up your sounds using a computer or just using the front panel of the unit?

It is way easier to configure it using a computer. It takes me about 30 minutes to dial in a sound. Some can take longer...some shorter.
 
I have a Pod X3 Live, which is the model that superseded the XT. Are you setting up your sounds using a computer or just using the front panel of the unit?

It is way easier to configure it using a computer. It takes me about 30 minutes to dial in a sound. Some can take longer...some shorter.
I tried both, definitely easier using a computer. Part of the problem is there are too many things to tweak but really for me it is the feel and responsiveness of a tube amp that I'm after. I couldn't find the same dynamic no matter what I tried and I spent hours at it. I could get a tone that would be good enough for live use but for practice it was too sterile. Even live I would hear the difference and to play your best you need to not be distracted by not hearing what you want. I'm lucky in that I have a few really nice tube amps. They have spoiled me. I also have a really nice SS amp that I use for backup. Even it sounds way better than the Pod XT. If I had the money to burn I'd try a newer/better modeller but for now that won't be happening.
 
I tried both, definitely easier using a computer. Part of the problem is there are too many things to tweak but really for me it is the feel and responsiveness of a tube amp that I'm after. I couldn't find the same dynamic no matter what I tried and I spent hours at it. I could get a tone that would be good enough for live use but for practice it was too sterile. Even live I would hear the difference and to play your best you need to not be distracted by not hearing what you want. I'm lucky in that I have a few really nice tube amps. They have spoiled me. I also have a really nice SS amp that I use for backup. Even it sounds way better than the Pod XT. If I had the money to burn I'd try a newer/better modeller but for now that won't be happening.

This tone appeals to me for some reason...it's not what I would call "Cultured" but it's kind of my tone regardless...and it's definitely not fizzy...

 
This tone appeals to me for some reason...it's not what I would call "Cultured" but it's kind of my tone regardless...and it's definitely not fizzy...

I had a 50 watt Marshall solid state as a backup for a while. I loved the tone, very similar to the video, but it only had that one tone. The cleans were not that great.
 
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