DonP
Guest
That's a lot of cash for some really poorly machined parts. I'd bounce my apprentice back to floor sweeping if he did that.
SG tailpiece height?
- Thread starter Sérgio
- Start date
That's a lot of cash for some really poorly machined parts. I'd bounce my apprentice back to floor sweeping if he did that.
For years, Goo, I regarded Gibson's with such high esteem. That's all there was in the studio at home, that's what I saw Leslie West Playing, Bill Bartlett, and Angus Young using, so I just naturally assumed that I needed a Gibson. For a very long time, I regarded the Fender as a piece of inferior engineering.
Now I am beginning to see that the Fender platform is a very easy one to modify, it's very ergonomic, adjustable, and much less temperamental, so to speak, than the average Gibson's I have been exposed too.
I will give my 2016 Gibson SG three kudos - It is as loud as an acoustic unplugged, the Green Keys stay in perfect tune and their slow ratio allows me to 'creep up' on perfect pitch. I think those are the only reasons I ended up keeping it and investing money in it...
LOL!!! Yes!!! The ones I received looked great. This was a pic pulled from the Faber website...
DonP
Guest
They put THAT on their web site? Gulp.
This is what fills my dreams now....Mahogany body, Indian Rosewood Top, Drop-Top Binding, micro-polished with a tung oil finish...Hardtail of course!!!
I'm really impressed with the bridge tone of my Gibson SG with the 7.93k PAF. I have discovered that I seem to prefer the character and clarity of the lower output humbuckers, so I am once again considering the Carvin C22T (8.6k) or the H22N (7.3k) and then DiMarzio stacked single coils in the middle and neck positions...
I'm really impressed with the bridge tone of my Gibson SG with the 7.93k PAF. I have discovered that I seem to prefer the character and clarity of the lower output humbuckers, so I am once again considering the Carvin C22T (8.6k) or the H22N (7.3k) and then DiMarzio stacked single coils in the middle and neck positions...
Leslie West made those rock....
I'm not real smart...I need simple things....
Dave Sloven
Ambassador of DOOM!
I have mine top-wrapped with the tailpiece down real low but I have a Tone Pros tailpiece with the locking feature so it doesn't tilt.
Main thing you have to worry about with the tailpiece is break angle and clearance at the back of the bridge. If the strings press against the back of the bridge you WILL end up with a collapsed bridge. The guitar looks fine the way it is.
Main thing you have to worry about with the tailpiece is break angle and clearance at the back of the bridge. If the strings press against the back of the bridge you WILL end up with a collapsed bridge. The guitar looks fine the way it is.
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
i'm with Dave and these other guys. I like to top wrap my Gibsons, but not my Epiphones.
It's difficult for me to articulate why. I've tried it both ways on all my guitars. And this topic has
been debated at length over on ETSG (and likely MLP as well).
Here's the stock Gibson bridge on my 2012 SG. Tailpiece is very low, but raised just a hair above
the guitar's top. No extra string bead necessary as a spacer: None of the wound part of the string is exposed. To me, these are high quality precision made parts that function the way they are supposed to. ...for decades.
I've gotten great tone from the tuna matic bridge guitars... no matter what I've done with the bridges.
People think (and say) that Gibson tuna matic bridge is substandard because Gibson sucks...
It's simply not true. That bridge is traditional now, and most of the Gibsons made since 1955 have been
equipped with it, and most of them are still giving good service. And awesome tone. Or they would if their
owners would put down the Strat for a while and give them some new strings. *grins
Here's the same guitar, right out of the box, brand new from Gibson. This is the factory "setup" and it was
quite playable just like this. Of course I adjusted it to suit my own sense of what's right in the world.
Gibson's got the tailpiece higher on the bass side than on the treble side. Biddlin agreed that this was carefully
set just so by the guys at the Gibson factory. And I believe that he knows.
I don't think it matters much how high or low the tailpiece is. Note the position of the slots on the tailpiece
screws... Gibson orders their setup guys to crank them so they're square to the strings... for aesthetic reasons.
I do NOT understand that mentality. And I don't care which way the screw slots go. Some of our more technical-minded members suggest that the break angle over the bridge should be the same as the break angle over the nut.
To me, that sounds symmetrical and ship shape, but I don't think there's any effect on tone. *shrugs
It reeks of OCD. And I believe it's possible to WAY overthink these things.
I also don't think there's much effect on bendability... some other players may disagree with me, and
point knowingly at the 11s I prefer. I manage to bend my 11s anyway.
Here's my Epiphone Wilshire sporting a black Tone Pros bridge. NOT top wrapped, for some reason it felt
weird to me, so I keep it like this. The bridge and action are set up nicely for my style, and the tailpiece is
just off the deck, NOT clamped all the way down. To my ear, the tone is richer when the tailpiece is NOT
screwed right down tight. I've tried it both ways and listened a lot. It's very subtle IMHO. Not much difference.
But it's there. What do you think of the break angle eh? Similar to the angle over the nut? I didn't measure
anything, just made sure the strings were not touching the back of the bridge.
This Epiphone has a great snarl and rip... making me mindful of Wayne Kramer and Johnny Winter.
It's difficult for me to articulate why. I've tried it both ways on all my guitars. And this topic has
been debated at length over on ETSG (and likely MLP as well).
Here's the stock Gibson bridge on my 2012 SG. Tailpiece is very low, but raised just a hair above
the guitar's top. No extra string bead necessary as a spacer: None of the wound part of the string is exposed. To me, these are high quality precision made parts that function the way they are supposed to. ...for decades.
I've gotten great tone from the tuna matic bridge guitars... no matter what I've done with the bridges.
People think (and say) that Gibson tuna matic bridge is substandard because Gibson sucks...
It's simply not true. That bridge is traditional now, and most of the Gibsons made since 1955 have been
equipped with it, and most of them are still giving good service. And awesome tone. Or they would if their
owners would put down the Strat for a while and give them some new strings. *grins
Here's the same guitar, right out of the box, brand new from Gibson. This is the factory "setup" and it was
quite playable just like this. Of course I adjusted it to suit my own sense of what's right in the world.
Gibson's got the tailpiece higher on the bass side than on the treble side. Biddlin agreed that this was carefully
set just so by the guys at the Gibson factory. And I believe that he knows.
I don't think it matters much how high or low the tailpiece is. Note the position of the slots on the tailpiece
screws... Gibson orders their setup guys to crank them so they're square to the strings... for aesthetic reasons.
I do NOT understand that mentality. And I don't care which way the screw slots go. Some of our more technical-minded members suggest that the break angle over the bridge should be the same as the break angle over the nut.
To me, that sounds symmetrical and ship shape, but I don't think there's any effect on tone. *shrugs
It reeks of OCD. And I believe it's possible to WAY overthink these things.
I also don't think there's much effect on bendability... some other players may disagree with me, and
point knowingly at the 11s I prefer. I manage to bend my 11s anyway.
Here's my Epiphone Wilshire sporting a black Tone Pros bridge. NOT top wrapped, for some reason it felt
weird to me, so I keep it like this. The bridge and action are set up nicely for my style, and the tailpiece is
just off the deck, NOT clamped all the way down. To my ear, the tone is richer when the tailpiece is NOT
screwed right down tight. I've tried it both ways and listened a lot. It's very subtle IMHO. Not much difference.
But it's there. What do you think of the break angle eh? Similar to the angle over the nut? I didn't measure
anything, just made sure the strings were not touching the back of the bridge.
This Epiphone has a great snarl and rip... making me mindful of Wayne Kramer and Johnny Winter.
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DonP
Guest
Just one correction. The break angle over the bridge and nut have nothing to do with each other. The tailpiece should be adjusted so that the break angle over the bridge is the same both sides. This offers two benefits: it reduces the side-load on the bridge to zero, and it minimises the downward load and prevents the dreaded Gibson bridge-collapse.
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
and there you have it... that answers the OP's question perfectly.
I think that Epiphone manages to be more consistant with the neck angle when produced new so in return you dont have to raise the TOM bridge very high so in return of that you dont have to raise the tailpiece up very far to get the proper break angle.Has just been what i have experienced over the years. Im not a Gibson hater either just what i see alot of times.I solved all this by going to JR style wrap around bridge guitars and Teles.
Exactly.
I did some experimenting and thought i would share the results with you guys/gals.
For a while now, I thought I must be crazy to think about building my own guitar from scratch...the blending of a Fender Stratocaster with a Gibson neck. All this fuss about feel and tone...surely I should be able to just buy one off the rack??? Right???
I made a trip to my local Guitar Sinner yesterday afternoon. I decided to take enough cash with me to wheel and deal with, should i find anything worthwhile, plus all my measuring tools and strobe tuner.
I started playing only USA Fenders. Right away, the feel was familiar. But, the buzz was unbearable. Even the H-S-S Stratocaster buzzed unless in positions 2 and 4. Only this funky purple 'vintage vibe' Strat caught my "ear" in terms of tone, but the buzz was just too much.
Ok, my natural response in my head is just change pickups and wiring. Then I thought, Crap, Man...why spend a few grand and have to order pickups, wiring and wait around??? I already did this on a brand new Gibson. Not again.
I played the PRS's and Music Man's, a Luke and even the ugly EVH Wolfgang. Setup was fantastic on these, but tone just wasnt grabbing me, you know??? Ok, at least I can say I played them...
Finally, i asked the resident dude there (also a studio colleague) to bring me only Gibson Les Pauls from $1,200 up. The first one had a $4,799.00 sticker. These are on the top row you cannot reach without assistance.
I played every one they had. I noticed a lot of variation in neck/body angle and bridge height, as is typical. Setup was very good, surprisingly, although just about every one had the 'G' string saddle maxed out rearward, same as both my new Gibson SG's.
The setup is certainly better on the higher priced models I played when compared to the "faded" models. Neck angles varied quite a bit and in every case the guitar had a steep neck angle, the bridge was very high to deliver good action.
One Les Paul in particular, a 2016 Traditional Dark Back Desert Burst, had a very gradual neck angle and both bridge and tailpiece were almost on the body. It also had the best feel. Pickups sounded good too...a bit more buzz than I like (dead quiet in middle position) but certainly playable right off the hanger....
Again, the Gibson scale grabbed me. Not just how the string bends, but the tone is very different from a 25.5" scale to my ear. I also loved the fat "50's profile" neck on the Les Paul Tribute.
I also love the slow-ratio vintage green key tuners. Win-Win so far.
Try as I might, I just couldn't find the body shape comfortable. I sit a lot in session jobs and it's always wanting to slide off my leg. I also have to "fight" for upper fret access in that on very fast ascending runs, I bang my hand into the curvature of the cutout.
How does Zakk Wylde and Vivian Campbell not be bugged by this???
Well, I am no Campbell or Wylde, but I do have a certain "thing" I am looking for, and maybe I am too particular or OCD or whatever.
$1,954.00 wasn't a bad price on the 2016 Traditional Dark Back Desert Burst Les Paul serial 160122453, and it did have great tone, albeit with some buzz when not in middle position, but it kept coming to me, why contemplate buying a $2,000 guitar and already be trying to figure out how to tolerate the noise and weight offset of the body???
I probably came closer to buying this Les Paul than any other instrument i have looked at in recent times.
I kept thinking, am I just too bloody cheap or unreasonable??? Then I thought back over my last purchases.
My last guitar purchase was the 2016 Gibson SG T Series in September 2016 and I only paid around $900 with hardshell case. I put another $250.00 in it not counting labor.
Before that was my Schecter C1 Hellraiser I bought new in 2005 for $1,145.00. Never put anything into it.
Before that I bought a new 2003 Gibson SG and ended up returning it because of tuning and noise anomalies.
Hmmmm....
I don't think I am cheap. I base purchases not on what ot cost, but rather how it will function.
We discussed this at rehearsal last night in Hangar 18. Our lead guitarist told me he feels the same way about his custom shop Les Paul. He frequently brings his Epiphone Casino to gigs because it just feels more comfortable.
He, like our bandleader, often play their noisy custom shop Fender Stratocaster's and each can tell you what they both love and hate about each guitar.
I wish it were possible for me to just pull a guitar off the hanger and be 100% satisfied with it, but I do not think that is possible.
Maybe I am crazy for not being willing to accept all these anomalies, but I am convinced its possible to build a more comfortable, tonally superior guitar....
I guess we are about to find out if I am right....
For a while now, I thought I must be crazy to think about building my own guitar from scratch...the blending of a Fender Stratocaster with a Gibson neck. All this fuss about feel and tone...surely I should be able to just buy one off the rack??? Right???
I made a trip to my local Guitar Sinner yesterday afternoon. I decided to take enough cash with me to wheel and deal with, should i find anything worthwhile, plus all my measuring tools and strobe tuner.
I started playing only USA Fenders. Right away, the feel was familiar. But, the buzz was unbearable. Even the H-S-S Stratocaster buzzed unless in positions 2 and 4. Only this funky purple 'vintage vibe' Strat caught my "ear" in terms of tone, but the buzz was just too much.
Ok, my natural response in my head is just change pickups and wiring. Then I thought, Crap, Man...why spend a few grand and have to order pickups, wiring and wait around??? I already did this on a brand new Gibson. Not again.
I played the PRS's and Music Man's, a Luke and even the ugly EVH Wolfgang. Setup was fantastic on these, but tone just wasnt grabbing me, you know??? Ok, at least I can say I played them...
Finally, i asked the resident dude there (also a studio colleague) to bring me only Gibson Les Pauls from $1,200 up. The first one had a $4,799.00 sticker. These are on the top row you cannot reach without assistance.
I played every one they had. I noticed a lot of variation in neck/body angle and bridge height, as is typical. Setup was very good, surprisingly, although just about every one had the 'G' string saddle maxed out rearward, same as both my new Gibson SG's.
The setup is certainly better on the higher priced models I played when compared to the "faded" models. Neck angles varied quite a bit and in every case the guitar had a steep neck angle, the bridge was very high to deliver good action.
One Les Paul in particular, a 2016 Traditional Dark Back Desert Burst, had a very gradual neck angle and both bridge and tailpiece were almost on the body. It also had the best feel. Pickups sounded good too...a bit more buzz than I like (dead quiet in middle position) but certainly playable right off the hanger....
Again, the Gibson scale grabbed me. Not just how the string bends, but the tone is very different from a 25.5" scale to my ear. I also loved the fat "50's profile" neck on the Les Paul Tribute.
I also love the slow-ratio vintage green key tuners. Win-Win so far.
Try as I might, I just couldn't find the body shape comfortable. I sit a lot in session jobs and it's always wanting to slide off my leg. I also have to "fight" for upper fret access in that on very fast ascending runs, I bang my hand into the curvature of the cutout.
How does Zakk Wylde and Vivian Campbell not be bugged by this???
Well, I am no Campbell or Wylde, but I do have a certain "thing" I am looking for, and maybe I am too particular or OCD or whatever.
$1,954.00 wasn't a bad price on the 2016 Traditional Dark Back Desert Burst Les Paul serial 160122453, and it did have great tone, albeit with some buzz when not in middle position, but it kept coming to me, why contemplate buying a $2,000 guitar and already be trying to figure out how to tolerate the noise and weight offset of the body???
I probably came closer to buying this Les Paul than any other instrument i have looked at in recent times.
I kept thinking, am I just too bloody cheap or unreasonable??? Then I thought back over my last purchases.
My last guitar purchase was the 2016 Gibson SG T Series in September 2016 and I only paid around $900 with hardshell case. I put another $250.00 in it not counting labor.
Before that was my Schecter C1 Hellraiser I bought new in 2005 for $1,145.00. Never put anything into it.
Before that I bought a new 2003 Gibson SG and ended up returning it because of tuning and noise anomalies.
Hmmmm....
I don't think I am cheap. I base purchases not on what ot cost, but rather how it will function.
We discussed this at rehearsal last night in Hangar 18. Our lead guitarist told me he feels the same way about his custom shop Les Paul. He frequently brings his Epiphone Casino to gigs because it just feels more comfortable.
He, like our bandleader, often play their noisy custom shop Fender Stratocaster's and each can tell you what they both love and hate about each guitar.
I wish it were possible for me to just pull a guitar off the hanger and be 100% satisfied with it, but I do not think that is possible.
Maybe I am crazy for not being willing to accept all these anomalies, but I am convinced its possible to build a more comfortable, tonally superior guitar....
I guess we are about to find out if I am right....
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