HVAC Guys

LRT said:
On most indoor blower motors the bearings are sleave type oiling them will only temporarily fix the problem. If it gets to were the motor won't run from lack of lubrication then its best to replace the motor. If the motor has little plugs or oil tubes add a few drops yearly it will help to extend the life of the motor.

Air flow is key to airconditioning, if the filte is plugged or the indoor coil is dirty it will freeze up. One other thing I recommend to all customers is to take a garden hose and wash out the condencer/outdoor coils. A common problem i run into is that the outdoor coils are dirty causing a excessively high pressure. If the coils outside can't breat proper the refrigerant won't be able to remove enough heat to change the state from a super heated gas/vapor to a subcooled liquid. This is the basics of A/C. The indoor coil has a metering device that the subcooled liquid goes through into a low pressure coil. The low pressure coil causes the liquid to boil off and produce cooling by absorbing latent heat, this is heat found within moisture. As the refrigerant traveled through the coil it boils off till its a super heated gas in other words has absorbed its max potential of heat. Next it traveled to the outdoor unit and this is where that heat is removed. It travels through the outdoor coil as that heat is being expelled. As the proper heat is removed the state of the refrigerant changes back into a liquid and the cycle starts over again.

I'm basically saying to save the life of you equipment the coils need to be clean. Clean the outdoor unit once a year and change you filter monthly if its a 1" filter.

On another note if a tech has to come out yearly to add refrigerant then you need to make them find the leak and repair or replace whatever is leaking. Heating and air companies love the uneducated customer for this because it a quick fix to add refrigerant knowing that they will be back next year. Add 2lbs, charge there minimum labor and they were there for 20 minutes. In our aria our minumum laybor is 1hr at $110, most jobs i can do in 1hr or less so my average billable labor is 12hr in a 8hr day. I do try to find and repair all leaks so I dont have to return for the same problems. DO NOT let the tech put a stop leak snake oil in this WILL cause problems down the road.

Hope this helps for you guys to understand the importance of homeowner maintenance and also somewhat educates so a tech can't take advantage of the situation. It happens all to common here that tech bills a customer for things that didn't need or never were replaced
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OK that's really good advice...I agree. That's what a pro would tell anybody.
Plus, most people are not skilled enough to disassemble a motor, clean the bronze, and re-lube the bearings. That takes determination.

But I have had motors run for years more when I cleaned / re-lubricated the bearings; not just oil.
It's a mix of grease and oil. The grease is there to hold the oil in place....we learn this from fixing motors on Dual Turntables and Marshall SS power amp fans.

The starter capacitor
Can't do anything to fix that. Need a new one.
I know guys who "re-form" capacitors, but it really doesn't last very long IMHO compared to just buying a new one.

Leaks:
You guys should really install a pressure gauge, or a port where the gauge can connect. Refrigeration is infamous for tiny little leaks; it may take years to lose enough refrigerant to cause a problem.
You can use soap bubbles to find a leak too....although it takes patience for sure.

Here's what I tend to work on:

1596300171595.png But the days of chillers / air re-circulation in office towers are coming to an end. There is a nasty habit of airborne bacteria and mold (etc) causing health problems.
Are HEPA filters going to save you?
You guys.....got problems. :pound-hand:
The whole concept of air re-circulation needs to be reconsidered.

Now your 2 billion dollar office tower isn't safe to enter anymore. What are you gonna do? Tear it out and start over.
 
LRT said:
On most indoor blower motors the bearings are sleave type oiling them will only temporarily fix the problem. If it gets to were the motor won't run from lack of lubrication then its best to replace the motor. If the motor has little plugs or oil tubes add a few drops yearly it will help to extend the life of the motor.

Air flow is key to airconditioning, if the filte is plugged or the indoor coil is dirty it will freeze up. One other thing I recommend to all customers is to take a garden hose and wash out the condencer/outdoor coils. A common problem i run into is that the outdoor coils are dirty causing a excessively high pressure. If the coils outside can't breat proper the refrigerant won't be able to remove enough heat to change the state from a super heated gas/vapor to a subcooled liquid. This is the basics of A/C. The indoor coil has a metering device that the subcooled liquid goes through into a low pressure coil. The low pressure coil causes the liquid to boil off and produce cooling by absorbing latent heat, this is heat found within moisture. As the refrigerant traveled through the coil it boils off till its a super heated gas in other words has absorbed its max potential of heat. Next it traveled to the outdoor unit and this is where that heat is removed. It travels through the outdoor coil as that heat is being expelled. As the proper heat is removed the state of the refrigerant changes back into a liquid and the cycle starts over again.

I'm basically saying to save the life of you equipment the coils need to be clean. Clean the outdoor unit once a year and change you filter monthly if its a 1" filter.

On another note if a tech has to come out yearly to add refrigerant then you need to make them find the leak and repair or replace whatever is leaking. Heating and air companies love the uneducated customer for this because it a quick fix to add refrigerant knowing that they will be back next year. Add 2lbs, charge there minimum labor and they were there for 20 minutes. In our aria our minumum laybor is 1hr at $110, most jobs i can do in 1hr or less so my average billable labor is 12hr in a 8hr day. I do try to find and repair all leaks so I dont have to return for the same problems. DO NOT let the tech put a stop leak snake oil in this WILL cause problems down the road.

Hope this helps for you guys to understand the importance of homeowner maintenance and also somewhat educates so a tech can't take advantage of the situation. It happens all to common here that tech bills a customer for things that didn't need or never were replaced
Click to expand...
o_O

That is, by FAR, the longest post I've ever seen you make.

But all for a good cause. Good on you.
 
Well had a lot to say so maybe every one could get a basic understanding of refrigaration. The more the homeowner understands the better that and i get kinda pissed when a customer says that they were told they needed to replace their system over a bad capacitor. Had one yesterday that had another company out and charged for stuff they didn't do. Thats when I looked at them and said honesty means alot right, they looked at me dumbfounded and said well yes.
I dont and wont lie thats why most of my customer's will wait for me and nobody else
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
OK that's really good advice...I agree. That's what a pro would tell anybody.
Plus, most people are not skilled enough to disassemble a motor, clean the bronze, and re-lube the bearings. That takes determination.

But I have had motors run for years more when I cleaned / re-lubricated the bearings; not just oil.
It's a mix of grease and oil. The grease is there to hold the oil in place....we learn this from fixing motors on Dual Turntables and Marshall SS power amp fans.

The starter capacitor
Can't do anything to fix that. Need a new one.
I know guys who "re-form" capacitors, but it really doesn't last very long IMHO compared to just buying a new one.

Leaks:
You guys should really install a pressure gauge, or a port where the gauge can connect. Refrigeration is infamous for tiny little leaks; it may take years to lose enough refrigerant to cause a problem.
You can use soap bubbles to find a leak too....although it takes patience for sure.

Here's what I tend to work on:

View attachment 46789 But the days of chillers / air re-circulation in office towers are coming to an end. There is a nasty habit of airborne bacteria and mold (etc) causing health problems.
Are HEPA filters going to save you?
You guys.....got problems. :pound-hand:
The whole concept of air re-circulation needs to be reconsidered.

Now your 2 billion dollar office tower isn't safe to enter anymore. What are you gonna do? Tear it out and start over.
Click to expand...
So you are an HVAC tech?

You are right on the motors for turn table and dc fans for ss amps, computers etc. also shade pole motors. When it comes to PSC motors it would not be cost effective for me to rebuild or replace the bearings. Figur $150 for a universal motor and capacitor with $100 in laybor and running that day. Or I spend the time to take the motor back to shop replace bearings and reinstall im now 2 1/2hr and its a used motor with no guarantee af life or warranty. New motor same cost withe warranty
 
LRT said:
So you are an HVAC tech?

You are right on the motors for turn table and dc fans for ss amps, computers etc. also shade pole motors. When it comes to PSC motors it would not be cost effective for me to rebuild or replace the bearings. Figur $150 for a universal motor and capacitor with $100 in laybor and running that day. Or I spend the time to take the motor back to shop replace bearings and reinstall im now 2 1/2hr and its a used motor with no guarantee af life or warranty. New motor same cost withe warranty
Click to expand...

No just a maintenance tech, in general.
One of the things maintenance techs wind up working on is HVAC...
 
Amp Mad Scientist said:
No just a maintenance tech, in general.
One of the things maintenance techs wind up working on is HVAC...
Click to expand...
Well I know you know you amps and the trouble shooting so it tells me that you should be competent in controls. This is where the run of the mill electrition fails. The tell that there is 110, 208, 230, 480 at an outlet or junction box but can't tell you why this contactor won't pull in. This is my observation of the average electritions here, they argue with me when I tell them what the issue is and then find that I'm right.

Here is one of the big freezer units I work on tis is just the controls and line voltage at 480 3ph y system20200709_135646.jpg
 
Had a previous plumber send 2 young guys over when I had an issue with the furnace. Fuse went because they reversed polarity on wires for humidifier and took out a fuse.
That is bad enough in itself. These dolts wanted to use a 10A fuse in a 5 A circuit! All they had. I tried to explain fuses amd they had it backwards. Claimed that goimg over im current on the fuse was fine but not under.
I went out and got the fuse myself, it is a car fuse. Then got my current plumber who is a really good dude.

F me sideways.
 
MAN those Dolts were worse than dolts.

Also, Thanks a lot, guys. Now my dad says his AC has gone out and the off shoot of the gas company that fixes people's furnaces, water heaters, AC's tells him he need a new AC.

I bet his old one can be fixed, and as much as I like saving my dad money, I usually pay the price for trying to help him. I will likely take my lumps and try to get a HVAC guy in to give 2nd opinion and see if we can save him cash.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
MAN those Dolts were worse than dolts.

Also, Thanks a lot, guys. Now my dad says his AC has gone out and the off shoot of the gas company that fixes people's furnaces, water heaters, AC's tells him he need a new AC.

I bet his old one can be fixed, and as much as I like saving my dad money, I usually pay the price for trying to help him. I will likely take my lumps and try to get a HVAC guy in to give 2nd opinion and see if we can save him cash.
Click to expand...
We changed ours because of a refrigerant leak. Could have spent hundreds of hours chasing it down. Not worth it to us.
 
chilipeppermaniac said:
After going to his place today, I think he was told it needs a new compressor. I will see if he is up for 2nd opinions from some guys I know or other recommended techs.
Click to expand...
I assume its eather a shorted to ground or open winding for compressor motor that is hermetically sealed.
It easy to check your self.
There should be continuity across all 3 pins in every configuration and nothing to ground. If that all checked good then its most likely a capacitor. If you have a meter with capacitance then check the capacitor. If thats good then do you know that the contactor is getting its call from the tstat.
 
Thanks LRT, I mostly understand. I watched some YOUTUBE vids.

Also, I had dad call the fella I had install his new furnace like 5 or so years ago. He will be at dad's at 8 am tomorrow.
Worse comes to worse, he can make due with Window units till next Spring if he lives that long. I will see what the HVAC guy says tomorrow.
 
Thanks so much, LRT.

And of course, before the HVAC fella shows up tomorrow. I need to go shop vac up the pond that Last night's and today's rain storms caused in his basement.
 
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