Tube Swap - how would you do it?

eSGEe said:
ALl pissing on your parade aside---- I am sorry to hear of the issues that is SUPPOSED to be a stellar AMP!@
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The amp does sound good, better than any other amp I've owned, by a distance, but there are issues.

eSGEe said:
For diagnosis --- what is the issue?
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I know sweet FA about this stuff, but I'm pretty sure it's related to the 12AX7 socket/wiring.

The amp wasn't packaged well to me from Thomann, very little protection - as this company have grown, they've become worse and worse, imho... There was always a strange issue regarding attenuation/power which I was never sure about - sometimes the amp was loud, sometimes not. There was also not much gain at all even on the gain channel; light OD when maxed on the 'mean' channel...

Anyways, I swap out the JJ for the green Sylvania, and it sounded good, but the volume was right down, also it didn't seem to sit well in the socket; I thought it was an old tube and didn't think too much about it. Next, I tried the yellow Sylvania and that's when stuff started to happen: 1) much louder (more than 10db in equivalent settings, maybe 15db...); 2) far too microphonic on gain - gain couldn't be put on more than a third, any setting; 3) I noticed that the tube sat in well, but really differently to the other tubes. I took it out to put the JJ back in and notices that both the Sylvanias had bent legs upon exit, so I started to look at the socket... The socket is neither central in its metal housing nor flush to the housing. Also, the wiring of the 12ax7 socket has a lot of solder and bare metal very close to each other - not too neat at all, imho. The whole area looks messy.

I put the JJ back in, changed to the Mullard EL84 - the EL84 socket is perfect. &, the JJ had the same issues as the previous 12ax7 - much louder than it was originally, gain can't be put on anything other than the minimum setting, and the tone control weirdly adds a lot of gain (it always did that to a certain extent...).

So, with the gain right down, the attenuator works, you get the real volume (i.e. damn loud and then some more loud...), and the sound is glorious. But, you can't really use the 'mean' switch or add gain - it's all on the volume control, and you can add some grit by turning the tone control up.

It seems to me there's an issue with the 12ax7 socket, probably damaged in shipping, some wires maybe touching each other that shouldn't, and because the socket isn't flush with the housing I must've affected that by moving tubes in and out today.
 
Like the Rainy Monday jam alot Mitch. You got that set up great with that delay .All i use is delay and what ever dirt of the day is.I think my volume knob is frozen wide open to.I just turn the drive up or down depending on what im playin. Good job.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
The amp does sound good, better than any other amp I've owned, by a distance, but there are issues.



I know sweet FA about this stuff, but I'm pretty sure it's related to the 12AX7 socket/wiring.

The amp wasn't packaged well to me from Thomann, very little protection - as this company have grown, they've become worse and worse, imho... There was always a strange issue regarding attenuation/power which I was never sure about - sometimes the amp was loud, sometimes not. There was also not much gain at all even on the gain channel; light OD when maxed on the 'mean' channel...

Anyways, I swap out the JJ for the green Sylvania, and it sounded good, but the volume was right down, also it didn't seem to sit well in the socket; I thought it was an old tube and didn't think too much about it. Next, I tried the yellow Sylvania and that's when stuff started to happen: 1) much louder (more than 10db in equivalent settings, maybe 15db...); 2) far too microphonic on gain - gain couldn't be put on more than a third, any setting; 3) I noticed that the tube sat in well, but really differently to the other tubes. I took it out to put the JJ back in and notices that both the Sylvanias had bent legs upon exit, so I started to look at the socket... The socket is neither central in its metal housing nor flush to the housing. Also, the wiring of the 12ax7 socket has a lot of solder and bare metal very close to each other - not too neat at all, imho. The whole area looks messy.

I put the JJ back in, changed to the Mullard EL84 - the EL84 socket is perfect. &, the JJ had the same issues as the previous 12ax7 - much louder than it was originally, gain can't be put on anything other than the minimum setting, and the tone control weirdly adds a lot of gain (it always did that to a certain extent...).

So, with the gain right down, the attenuator works, you get the real volume (i.e. damn loud and then some more loud...), and the sound is glorious. But, you can't really use the 'mean' switch or add gain - it's all on the volume control, and you can add some grit by turning the tone control up.

It seems to me there's an issue with the 12ax7 socket, probably damaged in shipping, some wires maybe touching each other that shouldn't, and because the socket isn't flush with the housing I must've affected that by moving tubes in and out today.
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are you still within the realm of a return? Or Exchange?
 
Mr Grumpy said:
In the DSL5 and Origin 20 I had, they were much improved by a 10" Greenback. Once the cable I order for the amp to cab arrives, I'll check the 1x12 out again to see if I like the sound; if not then that'll get a Greenback.

OK, time to tube swap... I'll be back with results.
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Grumpy those amps you had that didn't sound good they must of had wetback speakers. ;)
 
eSGEe said:
are you still within the realm of a return? Or Exchange?
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Thomann, from Korea, are you joking... They'll be a fix... Some more issues... :)

Just when I think everything is ok and turn the volume up a bit, something happens and the amp jumps into another time zone with massive volume and unpleasant gain and nastiness all around, it's as if a diode or a capacitor is switched by some voltage build up or something. I reckon I have enough info to contact the manufacturer for them to say pretty exactly what the issue is.

But then, at other times, sounds glorious.

Session 5 said:
wetback speaker
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I'm not sure what that is.
 
Mr Grumpy said:
^ you like it so much you bought 4! :D

Look, I'm sure it's sounds great S5, but folks have different ears, different expectations, etc. The Orange 35 RT suits you fine, Sir, and that's great.
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Don't know what happened there Grumpy I tried to take 3 of them out, :LOL:
 
Mr Grumpy said:
The amp does sound good, better than any other amp I've owned, by a distance, but there are issues.



I know sweet FA about this stuff, but I'm pretty sure it's related to the 12AX7 socket/wiring.

The amp wasn't packaged well to me from Thomann, very little protection - as this company have grown, they've become worse and worse, imho... There was always a strange issue regarding attenuation/power which I was never sure about - sometimes the amp was loud, sometimes not. There was also not much gain at all even on the gain channel; light OD when maxed on the 'mean' channel...

Anyways, I swap out the JJ for the green Sylvania, and it sounded good, but the volume was right down, also it didn't seem to sit well in the socket; I thought it was an old tube and didn't think too much about it. Next, I tried the yellow Sylvania and that's when stuff started to happen: 1) much louder (more than 10db in equivalent settings, maybe 15db...); 2) far too microphonic on gain - gain couldn't be put on more than a third, any setting; 3) I noticed that the tube sat in well, but really differently to the other tubes. I took it out to put the JJ back in and notices that both the Sylvanias had bent legs upon exit, so I started to look at the socket... The socket is neither central in its metal housing nor flush to the housing. Also, the wiring of the 12ax7 socket has a lot of solder and bare metal very close to each other - not too neat at all, imho. The whole area looks messy.

I put the JJ back in, changed to the Mullard EL84 - the EL84 socket is perfect. &, the JJ had the same issues as the previous 12ax7 - much louder than it was originally, gain can't be put on anything other than the minimum setting, and the tone control weirdly adds a lot of gain (it always did that to a certain extent...).

So, with the gain right down, the attenuator works, you get the real volume (i.e. damn loud and then some more loud...), and the sound is glorious. But, you can't really use the 'mean' switch or add gain - it's all on the volume control, and you can add some grit by turning the tone control up.

It seems to me there's an issue with the 12ax7 socket, probably damaged in shipping, some wires maybe touching each other that shouldn't, and because the socket isn't flush with the housing I must've affected that by moving tubes in and out today.
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Sorry that you're amp seems to be having issues. Frustration can be overwhelming when trying to keep a sane mind.

When I go back and try to look at those close-ups of your amp's 12AX7 and the socket's wiring, I really can't see the details needed to confirm that the wiring has been properly executed. There's a lot of point-to-point wiring coming off the socket, and a lot of those wires also have heat shrink sleeves that obscures the view.

Things to try:
With the amp fully on, and a guitar plugged in, try gently rocking the tube around (without the heat shield of course). What do you hear?

With the amp fully on, and a guitar plugged in, use a chopstick or a wooden skewer and try to move those wires or any of the other components that are directly attached at the socket. What do you hear?

With the amp OFF, look for any deformaties of the individual metal sockets. I don't know if it's possible, but maybe some excess solder has oozed into any of the individual metal sockets thus compromising the tubes installation. Clean with electronic contact cleaner, the individual metal sockets. Make sure a tube pin will have a very snug fit in each of those metal sockets
 
Sorry to hear you are having troubles Mr Grumpy, & time zones are a pain in the ass. Don't sweat the V1 tube pins being bent upon removal from the socket, it happens frequently. An easy way to straighten them is to remove the guts from a ball point pen (biro) & place the outter plastic tube part of the pen over each pin (one at a time) that needs straightening. Or use any similar small cylindrical item you may have. The pins are quite easily straightened in this way.
Can we possibly get a couple of close-up pics of the V1 socket? Sysco as always has given some good advice. Oh, can we also see pics of the V1 mounting discrepancies? Hopefully we can make some progress. Cheers
 
syscokid said:
View attachment 41628
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I usually don't indulge in comedy when a TTR brethren is having amp troubles as I can well imagine the frustration that they must be experiencing (time & place for everything type thing), but that right there is frikkin hilarious.
Ok, with that out of the way, we can most likely rule out the attenuation circuitry, as that circuit is operating on the "speaker out" part of the amp (between the output transformer & speaker out socket).
More likely to be in the V1 wiring, circuitry or socket. Cheers
 
In the interest of maybe making a possible diagnosis a little easier, here's a gutshot of the same type amp with the eyelet/turret tag boards inter-eyelet wiring done "above board".
15846153031714890639047968180184.png
Mr Grumpy's amp has this "under the board". Cheers
 
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