My hands hurt. Will diamond fret files help?

RVA

RVA

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After my last fret job, I find my hands hurting, mostly my thumbs. I already have 2 more jobs planned and hope to be doing fret work for years to come. My current crowning files work, but require just that...lots of work.

I was thinking that it may be time for a good set of diamond crowning files. These dual grit files seem like a solid tool and may be worth tne investment.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tool...for_Fretting/Dual-grit_Diamond_Fret_File.html

What say you all? Is this the answer to my thumb woes?

Thanks in advance for any opinions.
 
Maybe it is more your technique than the tool, or maybe not.
I dont now if a better tool is the answer, but I will relate a bit of my own ON-topic experience.
If you can justify the cost of buying a better tool, BUY THE TOOL.

I dont know what file you have, I have the cheapy Dobco red one (large), I couldnt find the Medium/Orange handle one at the time.
I dont have any vintage small fret guitars (yet), so it works fine.
IF I recall, you have the z-shaped one with wood bulb shaped handle and the file inserts that go on the end. That is reported to be a pretty good tool.

I only take maybe 4-6 firm but fairly light strokes canted slightly left, then same canted slight right , then one or two light pressure passes perpendicular. I do this following the radius of the fret, so only a portion of the length of the fret is having material moved during those passes.

That gets me very close all but what were the highest frets, which would have be the most flat-filed.
These are on the typical nickel blend fret; stainless would be more work I am told.

Looking closely at that thin crown line will tell you what needs more attention, be it center, treble or bass side; often it is one end or the other and not the whole fret that was high(er) than the imagined infinite tangential planes along the radius and length of the fret board; like if there were an infinite number of strings.

I dont experience that type of fatigue or pain at all. My fingers do get a little tired during the process but not anything like you describe. My hands have done a lot of physical type tool in hand jobs over the decades, so I dont know how that would factor in comparing.

How much should it take to file the 2 sharp edged shoulders created when leveling back to a crown?
If you are going past that and take anything off the dead center (the crown itself) you have lost the leveling.

I'm not saying that is what you are doing, just something to consider.

Long story, but it gives you something to compare how much filing we each may be doing.

Short answer, will it solve this problem? I dont know.
Should you buy the tool if you can justify the cost? HELL YES.
 
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jtcnj said:
Maybe it is more your technique than the tool, or maybe not.
I dont now if a better tool is the answer, but I will relate a bit of my own ON-topic experience.
If you can justify the cost of buying a better tool, BUY THE TOOL.

I dont know what file you have, I have the cheapy Dobco red one (large), I couldnt find the Medium/Orange handle one at the time.
I dont have any vintage small fret guitars (yet), so it works fine.
IF I recall, you have the z-shaped one with wood bulb shaped handle and the file inserts that go on the end. That is reported to be a pretty good tool.

I only take maybe 4-6 firm but fairly light strokes canted slightly left, then same canted slight right , then one or two light pressure passes perpendicular. I do this following the radius of the fret, so only a portion of the length of the fret is having material moved during those passes.

That gets me very close all but what were the highest frets, which would have be the most flat-filed.
These are on the typical nickel blend fret; stainless would be more work I am told.

Looking closely at that thin crown line will tell you what needs more attention, be it center, treble or bass side; often it is one end or the other and not the whole fret that was high(er) than the imagined infinite tangential planes along the radius and length of the fret board; like if there were an infinite number of strings.

I dont experience that type of fatigue or pain at all. My fingers do get a little tired during the process but not anything like you describe. My hands have done a lot of physical type tool in hand jobs over the decades, so I dont know how that would factor in comparing.

How much should it take to file the 2 sharp edged shoulders created when leveling back to a crown?
If you are going past that and take anything off the dead center (the crown itself) you have lost the leveling.

I'm not saying that is what you are doing, just something to consider.

Long story, but it gives you something to compare how much filing we each may be doing.

Short answer, will it solve this problem? I dont know.
Should you buy the tool if you can justify the cost? HELL YES.
Click to expand...
Thank you. In reality, I have been sanding many times to the point where the frets become flat and need to be fully reshaped. such was the case in this last instance where there was one very low fret. In fact, the tool i used, which you correctly describe and is pictured below, has difficulty grabbing the sides of the flattened portion such that on one occassion I needed to use gradual sizes upward. I have also pictured what one of these levels look like.

Decision made, I am getting the tool!! Thank you!

20161012_212107_zps6qrfy432.jpg


20161012_214559_zpsksnmshtd.jpg


20160910_003424_zpshzizxwkz.jpg
 
I made the same over-filing mistake; and why i posted about technique. By canting the tool a little left and right you will only, or mainly, take material off the flat edge one side at a time with a bit more control and not touching the center.
This probably works well with my tool since it is the larger sized one, but that is speculation.
It may NOT be a better technique but I have found it works well for me.

Taking your time and Eyeballing that flat as it becomes a thin line - the crown itself- is THE KEY.

I only use the fret protector when finish sanding.
That may or may not be affecting (effecting? damn that always gives me trouble but I think affect is usually the verb and effect the noun) how your file contacts the fret.
I have made a few small scratches in fretboards, but very few and very small.

I have used and would use painters tape if I have the need to be more careful.

I can see you had to take a lot off on the patient pictured, sucks.
Not relevant here, but sure about your truss rod adjustment as well.
The last one I did was on a 25" scale for which I did not have a notched straightedge so I straightedged it best I could and made several rounds of very light beam passes on sharpie to get a best guess at a flat straight neck.
Came out great.

I take bolt on necks off; dressing fret ends / bevels is less likely to cause collateral damage at the uppermost area.
I mask off pickups if set neck; dont get those filings in there.

Much of this you may be familiar with,
Just throwing in my experience, YMMV.
 
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just from your post, sorry if I misunderstood the meaning:
"I have been sanding many times to the point where the frets become flat and need to be fully reshaped."

I was referring to over use of crown file. I did that early on.
When you sand for level you'll get flat tops.
I think you can actually use that and how you crown (or not) them to fine tune intonation but thats out of my league.
I mean I could take it into account and crown accordingly but my level of playing doesnt warrant such even though my anal OCD nature almost forces me to do it.

Did you know Nikola Tesla was obsessed with multiples 3?
I use relativisms like that, or watching Jerry Springer or the like to help me feel better about myself:
Those MFers are really F'd up at least I'm not THAT bad.......
So, theres that.

I'm kidding, well at least partially.
 
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jtcnj said:
just from your post, sorry if I misunderstood the meaning:
"I have been sanding many times to the point where the frets become flat and need to be fully reshaped."

I was referring to over use of crown file. I did that early on.
When you sand for level you'll get flat tops.
I think you can actually use that and how you crown (or not) them to fine tune intonation but thats out of my league.
I mean I could take it into account and crown accordingly but my level of playing doesnt warrant such even though my anal OCD nature almost forces me to do it.

Did you know Nikola Tesla was obsessed with multiples 3?
I use relativisms like that, or watching Jerry Springer or the like to help me feel better about myself:
Those MFers are really F'd up at least I'm not THAT bad.......
So, theres that.

I'm kidding, well at least partially.
Click to expand...
I have my share of idiosyncrasies, so we have that in common!

OK, so I have only gotten flat tops from my leveling. If anything, I have stopped level sanding too early as I did with the do-over last night, my "new to me" 2007 Epi G-400. Otherwise, I have been happy with the playability and intonation from the final result. I have often taken material off after the frets are level because your less expensive guitars come with some tall wire left standing. Don P taught me to dig in until it met my preference. The only time I have been caught short is when I was at my preference and there was still more to go to match a low fret and I chickened out! Those jobs have and will require a re-do, just like the SG.
 
The priceless value of experience; I had a couple do overs early on as well.
I've post this before, but it is relevant.

Had to get a new neck for a Rondo SX tele that was slightly warped resulting in a low area treble side around number 4.

But I was young (reads as: old but inexperienced) and idealistic!!
Instead of sending the guitar back I had at it twice and ended up with the treble side of 1,2 and maybe 7,8 ish so flat and low it was ruined.
I still may try to re-fret that neck and use taller frets just to see if I can make it work, for experience building only theres no $$ value to be gained or saved.

Ordered a new neck, did the whole fret level job and it is a really good playing guitar. In fact, its what I have been playing mostly the last week or so.

The finish on the maple fretboard kind of makes my fingers drag on bends and vibrato sometimes, compared to the rosewood on everything else I own.

I have a project on order that consists of a shell neck/body LP jr. copy that has the slots cut but no frets installed; my next step forward in complexity.
 
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Out of curiosity, RVA, what are you using for the initial sanding?

I know it is not what you're asking, but I'd like to know.
 
So the answer to the question posed in the title to the thread is......YES!

Oh my. It is easier. It is quicker. But most importantly, the freedom you get from not having to use as much force allows you to be more artful in your work. It was expensive, but worth every penny. Another example of the pleasure of having the right tool for the job!
 
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RVA said:
... Another example of the pleasure of having the right tool for the job!
Click to expand...
I agree. As a professional auto mechanic for 20 years, I know the value of quality tools. Quality is not expensive, it is priceless.
 
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