OP
Yea man, keep us posted.....I know you will.
Hummmm, now maybe I hold off..... Let the games begin
Geez...do I talk that much???
Alas! And My Tone Escapes Me:
- Thread starter Inspector #20
- Start date
Geez...do I talk that much???
OP
I ordered a new tube for my 1997 Marshall Valvestate VS265. I chose a 12AX7S-MG-JJ for the preamp section...
Bocc69
Ambassador of Metal Health
Talking is what makes this site go round.....it's a good thing. The more people post, the more i learn.
This morning, I applied some of what Ive learned.
still have some soldering to do later, but.....
OP
Talking is what makes this site go round.....it's a good thing. The more people post, the more i learn.
This morning, I applied some of what Ive learned.
still have some soldering to do later, but.....
View attachment 2518 View attachment 2519 View attachment 2520 View attachment 2522
Very nice work....
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
JJ had been producing 12AX7 types with only "high gain" as their objective, its good to see them come to their senses and offer this "mid gain" tube that has better tonal qualities. Really, in most applications you don't so much notice a slight reduction in voltage gain. While I think of it, the S suffix on 12AX7's designates a "spiral wound" heater. This is to reduce AC heater induced hum. Pre amp tubes without this "S" suffix, or spiral wound heater are intended for use in DC heatered applications. Cheers
Bocc69
Ambassador of Metal Health
Thanks man.. Just a bit of copper adhesive. Found it on Amazon for $7, shipped. Seemed to be the best deal, good reviews. Going to, hopefully, finish this guitar in the morning. It's been a friggen journey with this LP....so close. Just want to start jamming this thang!
OP
Much about tone have I discovered, um hum, as Master Yoda would say. Allow me to share with you what I have learned in my tonal quest.
The single biggest element of my tone is my amplifiers.
The switch to the 90 watt Creamback was a step in the right direction. A definite tonal improvement. However, the biggest change took place when the TAD 7025-WA's and the Electro-Harmonix EL-34's were installed.
This changed the character of all three guitars. It also made the tone controls seem more "alive" than ever before.
The Tone Man harness and Russian K40Y tone caps, along with the GFS Classic II PAF clones, were a huge improvement on the Gibson SG.
However, the SG is no more adjustable than the Schecter C1 Hellraiser with EMG'S. Playing them back to back, the most notable difference is the Schecter has higher output and volume. True the EMG'S hit the amp harder, which gives a bit more gain, but tonally they are hard to tell apart.
I think the Gibson SG is a keeper. It will be a useful studio tool and a great guitar for my students to play. However, I do not think it will ever be my main guitar. I will probably keep it for certain musical projects. I'm not against selling it, but I'm in no hurry.
The Schecter is just so bloody fast. I can play faster with less effort and more accuracy on the Hellraiser. I am sure the 14" radius and .030" action have a lot to do with it, but its just so easy to play and every note has such uncanny accuracy. I heard Nita Strauss say the same thing about the Ibanez Wizard 2 neck and now I understand her observations.
The old 1987 Squire Stratocaster will be converted back to DiMarzio Stacked Single Coils as it too has a specialist assignment - My Rory Gallagher music projects.
In summary, the tone I sought, in the purchase of the Gibson SG, was realized by changing the tubes in the amp. I have never before experienced such an incredible change.
I hope this helps some of you in your quest....
The single biggest element of my tone is my amplifiers.
The switch to the 90 watt Creamback was a step in the right direction. A definite tonal improvement. However, the biggest change took place when the TAD 7025-WA's and the Electro-Harmonix EL-34's were installed.
This changed the character of all three guitars. It also made the tone controls seem more "alive" than ever before.
The Tone Man harness and Russian K40Y tone caps, along with the GFS Classic II PAF clones, were a huge improvement on the Gibson SG.
However, the SG is no more adjustable than the Schecter C1 Hellraiser with EMG'S. Playing them back to back, the most notable difference is the Schecter has higher output and volume. True the EMG'S hit the amp harder, which gives a bit more gain, but tonally they are hard to tell apart.
I think the Gibson SG is a keeper. It will be a useful studio tool and a great guitar for my students to play. However, I do not think it will ever be my main guitar. I will probably keep it for certain musical projects. I'm not against selling it, but I'm in no hurry.
The Schecter is just so bloody fast. I can play faster with less effort and more accuracy on the Hellraiser. I am sure the 14" radius and .030" action have a lot to do with it, but its just so easy to play and every note has such uncanny accuracy. I heard Nita Strauss say the same thing about the Ibanez Wizard 2 neck and now I understand her observations.
The old 1987 Squire Stratocaster will be converted back to DiMarzio Stacked Single Coils as it too has a specialist assignment - My Rory Gallagher music projects.
In summary, the tone I sought, in the purchase of the Gibson SG, was realized by changing the tubes in the amp. I have never before experienced such an incredible change.
I hope this helps some of you in your quest....
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
I'm glad you found your tone! But you should really look at some high end modeling or profiling rigs such as Kemper and AXE FX.
I have hundreds of tones at my fingertips and until you experience it first hand you will never understand
the hype. Listening to YouTube videos is pointless because you are not hearing the actual amp through a
FRFR amplified speaker...
I'm telling you if you ever sit down and play with one of these you will start saving to buy one...
I have hundreds of tones at my fingertips and until you experience it first hand you will never understand
the hype. Listening to YouTube videos is pointless because you are not hearing the actual amp through a
FRFR amplified speaker...
I'm telling you if you ever sit down and play with one of these you will start saving to buy one...
Gahr
Ambassador of Blues & Brews
Good to hear that you are finally happy with the SG! And interesting to hear how the change in your amps "changes" the guitars. It just goes to show how many factors are in play when we experience the sounds from our electric guitars.
Dave Sloven
Ambassador of DOOM!
BAH!! This is what you need for true tone!!! Slug tape has special mojo in it. Keeps slugs out of your guitar too. And despite the fact that it is metric it does work on Gibsons
Actually I am guessing that it doesn't work that well for deterring snails and slugs. Works just fine for shielding guitars though
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Bocc69
Ambassador of Metal Health
Interesting. I actually went to a few local stores looking for an alternative, but found nothing...finally searched on Amazon.
I never thought to look in the garden section..lol.
Have you used that stuff? I need to do my epi p90s. A bit hummy, they are.
Dave Sloven
Ambassador of DOOM!
Yeah I used it in my SG Special. Got this latest roll for my SG Standard, will do it when the BKP Miracle Man bridge pickup eventually arrives
OP
Gahr,
As far as noise goes, I have some AC power issues that I have identified, and I will address those soon. Now as far as copper tape goes, I installed a full 9 feet of copper Tape from Art of Tone in Ventura, California (E-Bay store $12.00 shipped) into the SG. It really paid off. I can now sit in front of the computer monitor with my SG and turn left and right with no noise!!!
As far as noise goes, I have some AC power issues that I have identified, and I will address those soon. Now as far as copper tape goes, I installed a full 9 feet of copper Tape from Art of Tone in Ventura, California (E-Bay store $12.00 shipped) into the SG. It really paid off. I can now sit in front of the computer monitor with my SG and turn left and right with no noise!!!
OP
You know, I see your point. If you listen to Nita Strauss, you can hear the effect of all her modeling software and it is indeed impressive. I think I still want to do things the olde way I suppose.
Not long ago, I bought a Zoom G1XON for my students because it had so many effect options. I still cannot figure out how to use it!!!!
OP
Gahr,
Let me share this with you. This is the best way I can explain my recent revelation.
The guitar is an interface - a method of allowing human hands to produce a signal - like a computer keyboard. But, without the CPU and monitor, there is no computer function, just the "clicking" of the keys as you type. In the same way, without an amp, there is no real soundpproduced, except acoustically, which on an electric, isn't a high degree of sound.
Some guitars are more comfortable than others. Comfort - NOT Tone, is the number one consideration in guitar selection.
Tone, to some degree, can be altered, but comfort is built in. For example., the Faber Locking Aluminum Tailpiece, GFS Alinco II Classic PAF clones and the Gary "Tone Man" Standefer wire harness made huge improvements in my SG's tone, but nothing to make it feel more comfortable, albeit familiar in my hands.
I have found that I seem to prefer the "Stratocaster" body shape. However, I have always loved a Les Paul tone, although I find them uncomfortable, almost un-natural feeling to play.
Consider that my most comfortable/familiar feeling guitar is my 2005 Schecter C1 Hellraiser. Now let's examine it's construction.
Mahogany neck and body with neck-through body construction (all 2010 and newer Hellraiser's are now set-neck construction)
Quilted maple, arched top (like a Les Paul)
Dual Humbuckers (ala Les Paul) but in this case EMG 81/85 with Alessandro Pots, .033uf Orange Drop tone caps and standard wiring
Rear control cavity rout (like a Les Paul)
Pickup Mounting Rings (like a Les Paul)
25.5" scale length, Mahogany neck, 2-way adjustable truss rod,
Thick Rosewood fingerboard, 'C' shaped profile thickness @ 1st Fret- .787” (20mm)/ @ 12th Fret- .866” (22mm)
1.653” (42mm) nut width
Compound radius 10" x 16" fretboard (All 2010 and newer Hellraiser's have a single-radius 14" fretboard
So, we see the Hellraiser is a lot like a Strat-shaped Les Paul in many respects. To some degree, this construction lends itself to the tonal quality of the guitar, but again, not as much as the amplifier.
Every nuance of tone I had been agonizing over was in the amplifier/tube selection.
Another example...
I stopped by the local Guitar Sinner the other night for bass strings. There was a fellow there playing a Gibson Les Paul Standard through a Blackstar amp. he had a decent (not great) tone dialed up, but he was incorrectly playing some Dio tunes.
For fun, I grabbed a cheap Fender Squire off the rack and plugged into a DSL100H Marshall half stack they had on display. I EQ'd the Squire for as much mid and bass as I could get, rolling off the highs and dialing up full resonance, low presence, thick tone shift and lead 2 settings with full gain.
The Squire literally destroyed the Les Paul for tone. I ripped up a number of classic Dio tunes, some Maiden and Scorpions too. The Les Paul player walked over and could not believe I was getting that huge, thick snarl from a cheapo Squire. I grabbed a cheaper Gibson Les Paul Goldtop Satin model, a couple of Jacksons, a Luke Music Man, a PRS and a Ibanez and all gave very similar performance through that amp. The humbuckers required a bit less bass and resonance to give good clarity, but in the end, it was the amplifier that made the big difference.
I could literally EQ anything in the store to sound the same on that rig.
So, IMHO, having a comfortable/familiar interface (guitar) is of huge importance. Having a tube amp with 5 bands of EQ capability and a high quality speaker is the other "missing link" of my tonal equation.
For comparison, I plugged into a Fender Twin Reverb and a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and I couldn't EQ up a decent tone to my ear. Not enough gain, not enough EQ tonal response, almost like a low-fi effect on a vocal recording. It sounded OK, but to my ear, I couldn't pull any "balls" out of it...and the harder I drove them both, the thinner they sounded, where the Marshall gets bigger and more brutally thick the harder you drive it.
Now during this experiment, I did not have my 1990's Boss GE-7, which gives me a full 7 bands of additional EQ, or my Boss CS-3 compressor, my Boss DD-3 Delay or my Boss NS-2 noise gate, and each and every one of these color my tone immensely.
Now, I have never been a van Halen fan...but think of the junk parts that EVH gleaned from the scrap piles of Grover and Wayne to build a cobbled-up "Franken-Strat."
The "Brown Sound" is all in the amps...
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
My Kemper profiler is very plug and play if you want it to be. Hook it up and turn it on. Dial up the profile you like and play...
Of course you can go very deep into the settings and change every parameter you can think of if you like...
OP
I would probably need a video tutorial!
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
I doubt it, but there are many available on YouTube...
OP
So what is it exactly?