OP
The only constant in this entire scheme is the input jack/cavity, but I don't see anything wrong....Hmmmmm
Noisy Stratocaster H-H Installation:
- Thread starter Inspector #20
- Start date
Alex_SG
Ambassador of Trippy Rock
It sounds like you've done everything to try and find the source of the noise.
I had similar problems with my bass, and it ended up being the 250k Bournes pots I bought.
I have since pulled them and replaced them with a couple of 500k Alpha mini pots, and everything is now how it should be.
My point is, you may have to strip it all, and start again, step by step, until you find the source.
I know it's frustrating, but it may be your only hope.
I had similar problems with my bass, and it ended up being the 250k Bournes pots I bought.
I have since pulled them and replaced them with a couple of 500k Alpha mini pots, and everything is now how it should be.
My point is, you may have to strip it all, and start again, step by step, until you find the source.
I know it's frustrating, but it may be your only hope.
OP
There is no noise of any kind when I touch the metal parts of the guitar. No pop or click when touching the pickups, bridge or strings...but the buzzing is very loud. It's the same when I switch amps. It's the same when I switch pickguards and pickups. No changes from a cable and amp switch. Tried a different electrical supply source, different rooms, even took the amp outside...no change. Plug my Gibson into the same setup and it's dead quiet.
The only constant i see here is the jack...but it looks good and I recently replaced the wires with heavier gauge conductors and shrinkwrap....
Hmmmmm....
The only constant i see here is the jack...but it looks good and I recently replaced the wires with heavier gauge conductors and shrinkwrap....
Hmmmmm....
OP
Good information....between the three pickguards I swapped on, there were mix of 250k and 500k Alpha pots....
Left to Right:
GFS 13.9k Humbucker 10k and 7k Hum cancelling GFS pickups 5 way switch
GFS Classic II's Alinco Wax Potted PAF's 8.6k/8.0k
DiMarzio VV Solo/HS3/YJM
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OP
So far, everything looks good. No copper touching places it shouldn't. Everything grounded properly. The input jack tested out ok...no continuity with ground on the hot side.
As I was sorting through my pickguards, I noticed something I had never noticed before. On one of my H-H pickguards, loadedvwith the GFS PAF's, the ground wire for each pickup AND the braided shields are solder to the body of the selector switch.
As you may recall, I had an issue with "static cling" on the selector switch and it would buzz loudly if you popped off the plastic tip and touched the blade itself. I actually found a second pickguard in my collection grounded in such a way.
Now the braided shield on a pickup is active, meaning it carries electrical energy, so it was trying to ground through just the copper tape on the back of the pickguard.
To me, this creates a sort of antenna....
More to follow later...
As I was sorting through my pickguards, I noticed something I had never noticed before. On one of my H-H pickguards, loadedvwith the GFS PAF's, the ground wire for each pickup AND the braided shields are solder to the body of the selector switch.
As you may recall, I had an issue with "static cling" on the selector switch and it would buzz loudly if you popped off the plastic tip and touched the blade itself. I actually found a second pickguard in my collection grounded in such a way.
Now the braided shield on a pickup is active, meaning it carries electrical energy, so it was trying to ground through just the copper tape on the back of the pickguard.
To me, this creates a sort of antenna....
More to follow later...
eSGEe
Ferengi Ambassador of Trade
I want one of these...............
Hand wound right here in FLOREEDUH-- I have SEEN the machine that does it----
http://www.deanguitars.com/query?upc=819998041410
Hand wound right here in FLOREEDUH-- I have SEEN the machine that does it----
http://www.deanguitars.com/query?upc=819998041410
OP
Make them, Bro!
OP
The copper was a HUGE Improvement in noise control. The noise only appeared recently....
Also using one of these....
http://www.officedepot.com/a/produc...m_mmc=PLA-_-Bing-_-Facility_Supplies-_-890273
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OP
I found a fellow with an identical issue to mine:
"I haven't played it in a while, or in the particular house I'm in for that matter but my telecaster is humming to a point where I can't record anything because the hum is so prominent... on a clean channel. Now I understand telecaster= single coil= hum... not like this though. I tried touching all of the metal contacts on the guitar to see if something wasn't grounded properly, but no change - the noise remained constant. Here's the kicker, whenever I move around, point the guitar up down rotate, the hum changes significantly, If i play with the guitar pointed to the ceiling I barely get a hum. I assume this is the electro magnetic interference from the powerlines outside affecting my pickups, Is there a way I can remedy this issue? Or should I try playing somewhere else? Basement etc? The hum is making a similar sound to that of a guitar cable that is not plugged in, the weird thing is when my cable is unplugged, and I move it around the room, point it at different areas, the hum changes. I have tried using it on a tube amp with and w/o a ground lift, on my laptop using my interface with the computer plugged in/ on batter power and the hum never changes. Please help...."
"I haven't played it in a while, or in the particular house I'm in for that matter but my telecaster is humming to a point where I can't record anything because the hum is so prominent... on a clean channel. Now I understand telecaster= single coil= hum... not like this though. I tried touching all of the metal contacts on the guitar to see if something wasn't grounded properly, but no change - the noise remained constant. Here's the kicker, whenever I move around, point the guitar up down rotate, the hum changes significantly, If i play with the guitar pointed to the ceiling I barely get a hum. I assume this is the electro magnetic interference from the powerlines outside affecting my pickups, Is there a way I can remedy this issue? Or should I try playing somewhere else? Basement etc? The hum is making a similar sound to that of a guitar cable that is not plugged in, the weird thing is when my cable is unplugged, and I move it around the room, point it at different areas, the hum changes. I have tried using it on a tube amp with and w/o a ground lift, on my laptop using my interface with the computer plugged in/ on batter power and the hum never changes. Please help...."
OP
Found this also...
"When tracking down noise it always pays to initially reduce your system to the minimum number of components, so begin by connecting your guitar directly to a single amp or recording processor via a screened cable, set the volume of the amp or monitor system to a normal operating level, turn the guitar's volume control all the way down and just listen. If there is any more noise than there was before the guitar was connected then the cable is at fault. With nothing connected, the amp's input jack will be automatically short-circuited to ground; with the guitar connected, but turned down, the input is again shorted, but at the other end of the cable, so the cable is the only variable.
Assuming all is well with the cable, now turn up the guitar's volume to maximum, hold the strings in a normal playing fashion and listen again. If you hear no more noise than before, congratulations; you must have a fantastically well-screened guitar and the perfect guitar-recording environment. The rest of us will be hearing at least a bit of buzzing and maybe a bit of 50/60Hz hum as well. Move the guitar around over an area of a few feet either way to see if the hum goes away. The level of hum is usually directly related to the guitar's proximity to any large mains transformers in the room. If you are using conventional (non-hum-cancelling) single-coil pickups and you are within the radiated field of a mains transformer, you will get hum. Exactly how much depends on the gain in your system and your proximity to the source. If you can't work out the origin of the hum field, try switching off everything except your amp (or monitor system, if you are DI'd) and then switch things back on one at a time to see when the hum reappears. When it does, see if you can re-site the offending item further away. The only solution is physical separation, as the amount of additional screening required to keep induced hum out of the pickups would actually prevent the guitar working at all. Of course, if you are using humbucking pickups, you are in the clear on this one, but the chances are you'll still have some 'buzz'.
Buzz has a lot more high-frequency content than hum. If you are unsure which you have, try turning your guitar's tone control all the way down; if the noise mostly goes away, you are dealing with buzz rather than hum. Buzz will also often be greatly reduced when you touch the strings or any other metal part of the guitar, sometimes accompanied by an audible click, whereas hum will remain unchanged. The common explanation for why noise goes away when you touch the strings or metalwork is that you are adding to the overall amount of screening. I'm not so sure about that, because certain types of noise actually get louder when you hold a guitar close to your body without touching the strings. This suggests to me that the player's body is, effectively, conducting the interference into close proximity with the guitar. The noise goes away when you touch the strings because that interference is safely conducted away to ground.
Unlike hum, which is generally induced directly into the pickup coils themselves, buzz gets in everywhere, so any bit of unshielded wiring can be the source. Even guitars with humbucking pickups will often still buzz. This is, understandably, very frustrating if you've just shelled out for a set 'noiseless' pickups for your Strat and find out the instrument is just as noisy as before; it no longer hums, but the amount of buzz is unchanged because the noise is getting in via the control cavity and the unscreened wiring rather than the pickups. The only answer is to screen every part of the internal electronics with copper foil or conductive paint, which is then connected to the earth side of the circuit. Do not attempt to screen the pickups themselves, or even the pickup covers, however, as this will alter the sound...."
"When tracking down noise it always pays to initially reduce your system to the minimum number of components, so begin by connecting your guitar directly to a single amp or recording processor via a screened cable, set the volume of the amp or monitor system to a normal operating level, turn the guitar's volume control all the way down and just listen. If there is any more noise than there was before the guitar was connected then the cable is at fault. With nothing connected, the amp's input jack will be automatically short-circuited to ground; with the guitar connected, but turned down, the input is again shorted, but at the other end of the cable, so the cable is the only variable.
Assuming all is well with the cable, now turn up the guitar's volume to maximum, hold the strings in a normal playing fashion and listen again. If you hear no more noise than before, congratulations; you must have a fantastically well-screened guitar and the perfect guitar-recording environment. The rest of us will be hearing at least a bit of buzzing and maybe a bit of 50/60Hz hum as well. Move the guitar around over an area of a few feet either way to see if the hum goes away. The level of hum is usually directly related to the guitar's proximity to any large mains transformers in the room. If you are using conventional (non-hum-cancelling) single-coil pickups and you are within the radiated field of a mains transformer, you will get hum. Exactly how much depends on the gain in your system and your proximity to the source. If you can't work out the origin of the hum field, try switching off everything except your amp (or monitor system, if you are DI'd) and then switch things back on one at a time to see when the hum reappears. When it does, see if you can re-site the offending item further away. The only solution is physical separation, as the amount of additional screening required to keep induced hum out of the pickups would actually prevent the guitar working at all. Of course, if you are using humbucking pickups, you are in the clear on this one, but the chances are you'll still have some 'buzz'.
Buzz has a lot more high-frequency content than hum. If you are unsure which you have, try turning your guitar's tone control all the way down; if the noise mostly goes away, you are dealing with buzz rather than hum. Buzz will also often be greatly reduced when you touch the strings or any other metal part of the guitar, sometimes accompanied by an audible click, whereas hum will remain unchanged. The common explanation for why noise goes away when you touch the strings or metalwork is that you are adding to the overall amount of screening. I'm not so sure about that, because certain types of noise actually get louder when you hold a guitar close to your body without touching the strings. This suggests to me that the player's body is, effectively, conducting the interference into close proximity with the guitar. The noise goes away when you touch the strings because that interference is safely conducted away to ground.
Unlike hum, which is generally induced directly into the pickup coils themselves, buzz gets in everywhere, so any bit of unshielded wiring can be the source. Even guitars with humbucking pickups will often still buzz. This is, understandably, very frustrating if you've just shelled out for a set 'noiseless' pickups for your Strat and find out the instrument is just as noisy as before; it no longer hums, but the amount of buzz is unchanged because the noise is getting in via the control cavity and the unscreened wiring rather than the pickups. The only answer is to screen every part of the internal electronics with copper foil or conductive paint, which is then connected to the earth side of the circuit. Do not attempt to screen the pickups themselves, or even the pickup covers, however, as this will alter the sound...."
OP
So, this all seems so simple, but in reality, it is not. Whatever this is has really stumped me..
At least I have been able to verify that others have experienced the same exact problem I am having, with both humbuckers, single coils and hum-cancelling single coils.
It would appear that this is simply EMI interference, but if it is, the source is yet to be found.
I can also plug in my Gibson SG or my Schecter Hellraiser and get no noise whatsoever.
Going to conduct more experiments today...
At least I have been able to verify that others have experienced the same exact problem I am having, with both humbuckers, single coils and hum-cancelling single coils.
It would appear that this is simply EMI interference, but if it is, the source is yet to be found.
I can also plug in my Gibson SG or my Schecter Hellraiser and get no noise whatsoever.
Going to conduct more experiments today...
OP
Well, it's definitely outside interference....unplugging most everything in the house hasn't helped...
I have a couple of questions.
First, your diagram shows four-wire humbuckers. Are you sure you terminated the coils together properly, meaning selected the correct pickup wires to join together? That "Red-joined-to-White" color code is a Seymour Duncan color scheme. It won't necessarily be the same for all pickups. It's hard to tell from the glare in your pictures what is joined to what.
Anyway, if the coils are terminated in series, which is the normal method, there is a greater signal-to-noise ratio. So, hum will be less apparent. If the coils are wired in parallel, they still technically cancel the hum (though it is never cancelled 100%), but the signal-to-noise ratio is less. So, at any given level, the difference between the signal and any residual hum will not be as great, meaning a hum will be more apparent.
Second, are you sure you wired your switch correctly? Did you reuse your five-way switch and attempt to rewire for 3-way operation, or did you get a new 3-way switch? This issue almost sounds like something isn't terminated correctly.
First, your diagram shows four-wire humbuckers. Are you sure you terminated the coils together properly, meaning selected the correct pickup wires to join together? That "Red-joined-to-White" color code is a Seymour Duncan color scheme. It won't necessarily be the same for all pickups. It's hard to tell from the glare in your pictures what is joined to what.
Anyway, if the coils are terminated in series, which is the normal method, there is a greater signal-to-noise ratio. So, hum will be less apparent. If the coils are wired in parallel, they still technically cancel the hum (though it is never cancelled 100%), but the signal-to-noise ratio is less. So, at any given level, the difference between the signal and any residual hum will not be as great, meaning a hum will be more apparent.
Second, are you sure you wired your switch correctly? Did you reuse your five-way switch and attempt to rewire for 3-way operation, or did you get a new 3-way switch? This issue almost sounds like something isn't terminated correctly.
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OP
Hey, Man...
The diagram was just for reference, specifically the position of the tone capacitor.
Now, the Gibson 57 Classic's are just a 3 wire pickup...+, - and a shield...same as the GFS Classics. Only the GFS Double Slug 13.9k is a 5 wire pickup.
I have a dedicated 3 way switch on this setup....and here is where I noticed something. On the GFS pickguard, which came with twin PAF's, the negative (black) and braided shield are both soldered to the metal body of the selector switch. I didn't catch this at first, because I was switching everything around, but this would force the switch to create a ground path through the shielding tape alone along the back of the pickguard.
This, I think, explains the "static cling" sound when switching pickups and how the switch reacts when you get your fingers near it. I haven't corrected this just yet, but I will tonight.
I also have a brand new, all metal Switchcraft 3 way to install, but it's very odd looking...big spring on it with a scissor-lever and terminals on both sides of the switch....I need a diagram for this switch.
Also, the unused lug on the tone pot buzzed like hell when I touched it...even when my finger got near it...so I shrink wrapped the bare lug and noise was reduced.
Here is where I am now...
There are some real EMI anomalies going on here. I can point the Stratocaster in certain directiond snd almost eliminate the noise. This fact tells me its not a short or s bad ground, because neither of those would change when you moved the guitar.
The Gibson and Schecter are both quiet through the same equipment in the same room with the same setup and power supply...but both of these are heavily shielded.
So, I began to look deeper into the Stratocaster. I found many of the sections of copper tape, installed by me back in 2003, do not have continuity and the cavities were never completely encased, so no Faraday effect here.
This is the main issue I plan on resolving right away. Copper tape is coming from Stewie Mac.
Second is moving the grounds off the switch and to the volume pot and shielding the back of the pickguard COMPLETELY in copper. I am shielding the trem spring cover with aluminum tape.
Third is getting a diagram for the odd-looking, Made in USA Switchcraft all-metal 3 way switch.
Anything I missed???
OP
Here are my thoughts on this....
The purpose of the shielding is to, for all intensive purposes, create a Faraday effect. For this to happen, all sections of copper must be grounded.
I consider the shielding to be "passively grounded" in a manner of speaking. However, In this case, the "-" lead and the shielding braid on the pickups are trying to ground through the switch body, via the copper tape, rather than being directly attached to the volume pot.
Also, the pickguard and the cavity shielding were not making a solid connection, so the pickguard was acting like a giant antenna.
It's not that it wasn't grounded, but the Faraday effect wasn't fully functional, some areas were not shielded and there appeared to be some sort of "bleedover" between positive and negative at the switch...
The purpose of the shielding is to, for all intensive purposes, create a Faraday effect. For this to happen, all sections of copper must be grounded.
I consider the shielding to be "passively grounded" in a manner of speaking. However, In this case, the "-" lead and the shielding braid on the pickups are trying to ground through the switch body, via the copper tape, rather than being directly attached to the volume pot.
Also, the pickguard and the cavity shielding were not making a solid connection, so the pickguard was acting like a giant antenna.
It's not that it wasn't grounded, but the Faraday effect wasn't fully functional, some areas were not shielded and there appeared to be some sort of "bleedover" between positive and negative at the switch...
OP
Tonight, an entirely new dimension was added to the issue. I pulled out the Squire and played it despite the noise. As I began to listen closely to the noise, I could make out a pattern. I held the guitar up over my head and realized I was picking up KFRG 95.1 FM San Bernardino. All my amps have a double-wrap ferrite core on the power cables, so its definitely coming through the guitar....
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OP
The switch I have is a CRL 3-way...
