Hot Rodding a DSL40C???

[smitty_p]

@smitty_p - I am convinced through actual testing that the 5751 in the PI needs a ECC83MG in V3 to really shine. I swapped tubes back to back and with a standard ECC83 in V3, the effect of 5751 (both GE and JJ sounded and behaved the same) was not dramatic...and as you say, it reduced the fizzyness... but when combined with the ECC83MG, the effect was much more pronounced....and with the 12AU7 in V1, the 5751 effect became more dramatic.

This combo really sounded good too but I wanted more grit:

V1: 5751
V2: 5751
V3: ECC83MG
V4: 5751

Ask Don O. He's running 5751 in the V1 slot of his DSL40C.

Interesting, except I don’t have a V3!

Well, more accurately, I have a V3, but it’s not a preamp tube.

The DSL5c has two preamp tubes (V1 and V2). Then it has the phase inverter and the power tube. Instead of using two power tubes, it uses a 12BH7. The power tube is essentially split electronically and functions in an A/B configuration in the same way two separate power tubes would be used.

So, since I lack the extra gain stage that you have, I can’t really go too tame on my preamp side. I’m actually fine with the gain structure the way it is.

The next time I play live, I’ll have to pay close attention to the mix. While the touch of added harmonics sound great alone, sometimes those things have a way of making the sound disappear in the mix.

 

[Inspector #20]

Interesting, except I don’t have a V3!

Well, more accurately, I have a V3, but it’s not a preamp tube.

The DSL5c has two preamp tubes (V1 and V2). Then it has the phase inverter and the power tube. Instead of using two power tubes, it uses a 12BH7. The power tube is essentially split electronically and functions in an A/B configuration in the same way two separate power tubes would be used.

So, since I lack the extra gain stage that you have, I can’t really go too tame on my preamp side. I’m actually fine with the gain structure the way it is.

The next time I play live, I’ll have to pay close attention to the mix. While the touch of added harmonics sound great alone, sometimes those things have a way of making the sound disappear in the mix.

Ahhhh!!!!! Ok!!@!!

Then the B759 may be good for you.

 

[syscokid]

I agree! It's very smooth but increasing pick attack can make it really mean...sounding as of gain increases just by digging in with the pick of destiny...

Good amp dynamics!

Oh, and a Tube Screamer is a 100% requirement. It doesn't really add gain...it just makes the Les Paul sound like it weighs 100 pounds....big, huge speaker pulsation...but with absolute clarity.

I don't think I could get this without a TS or some copy of it, like a Green Monkey or East River Drive....

You get a lot for your money with these types of pedals. You don't need to spend more than a $100 for a good one.

 

[Inspector #20]

Good amp dynamics!


You get a lot for your money with these types of pedals. You don't need to spend more than a $100 for a good one.

Playing at dial position 4.5 helps too. I turn it up until I can feel air from the speaker...

 

[Don O]

@smitty_p - I am convinced through actual testing that the 5751 in the PI needs a ECC83MG in V3 to really shine. I swapped tubes back to back and with a standard ECC83 in V3, the effect of 5751 (both GE and JJ sounded and behaved the same) was not dramatic...and as you say, it reduced the fizzyness... but when combined with the ECC83MG, the effect was much more pronounced....and with the 12AU7 in V1, the 5751 effect became more dramatic.

This combo really sounded good too but I wanted more grit:

V1: 5751
V2: 5751
V3: ECC83MG
V4: 5751

Ask Don O. He's running 5751 in the V1 slot of his DSL40C.

Day 9 of not touching a guitar. All this tube swapping is gassing me to play tube roulette when I get home next Wednesday. 13 days without strumming a string.

Oh, and the 5751 and a Creamback mod did improve the DSL characteristics. The 5751 dailed back some of the first stage gain and the creamback removed some of the harshness of the sound. But now I gotta try some of these other tube combos next weekend.

 

[eSGEe]

PEAVEY BANDIT

 

[Inspector #20]

Day 9 of not touching a guitar. All this tube swapping is gassing me to play tube roulette when I get home next Wednesday. 13 days without strumming a string.

Oh, and the 5751 and a Creamback mod did improve the DSL characteristics. The 5751 dailed back some of the first stage gain and the creamback removed some of the harshness of the sound. But now I gotta try some of these other tube combos next weekend.

I'm no expert, Don, but im happy to share the results of my testing with you...

 

[Don O]

I'm no expert, Don, but im happy to share the results of my testing with you...

I’ll PM ya when I get home and have some time to experiment.

 

[Bocc69]

What tone are you looking for??? From the DSL40C...

I'm not really looking for a specific tone.... I'm just looking to not have certain traits, such as the " muddy" as you perfectly describe. It's a good amp for me, but I would like more defined notes sometimes. It's funny, one day I love it, the next time it sounds different. I think it's a volume and location thing. Overall I like the amp. It's a manageable to carry around, with power and good sound.

 

[Bocc69]

The stock power tubes are as good as anything you can buy....the real tone is in your choice of preamp tubes.

I've tried every modern and vintage tube I could find in mine and I am happy to share my combinations with you.

No soldering. No clipping. Just 4 tubes and a speaker swap...

Enquire Within...

I have watched your quest on dialing in your 40c with great interest. I will probably wait until one of my tubes goes bad before I make another switch. I've taken notes on your selections....but, I'll certainly be picking your brain. I do have the stock speaker though.....but I think some preamp tubes will still be a wanted upgrade.

 

[Inspector #20]

I have watched your quest on dialing in your 40c with great interest. I will probably wait until one of my tubes goes bad before I make another switch. I've taken notes on your selections....but, I'll certainly be picking your brain. I do have the stock speaker though.....but I think some preamp tubes will still be a wanted upgrade.

The stock speaker is NOT bad and it is not the "brittle" tone culprit....its actually the 'harsh' quality of the gain.

Yes...a Creamback is a better speaker than the stock 70/80, and it does have a richer tone...but the 70/80 isnt bad.

Now I will say that the custom 50 watt WGS Reaper 55Hz is a key element to making this amp sound so big...but I recently switched back to the stock 70/80 and the tone was still good...just not as thick and huge.

I've literally tried 2 shoeboxes of good, used tubes and at least (10) brand new tubes in mine.

The best tone and greatest range of the gain and tone controls are with the 12AU7/ECC83/ECC83MG/5751 combo.

Here are my settings. Note my volume is 4-1/2 during testing and at rehearsal. Everything is dialed-in for stage volume work. I dont care what it sounds like at low volume levels.


Photo Notes:

"Lead 2" is being used
"Tone Shift" is pushed 'In'
"FX Loop" is in use

Here's my pedal settings



Hope something here helps you along your way...

 

[Bocc69]

Yes...a Creamback is a better speaker than the stock 70/80, and it does have a richer

A while back I did research speaker options. Celestion creamback, v30 ,etc... From some sound samples in a DSL40c, my favorite was the Neo Creamback. But, in the end it just didn't seem like a big enough gain for the cash, switch and speaker break in .
I think tubes and tweeking the settings are the biggest net.

 

[Inspector #20]

A while back I did research speaker options. Celestion creamback, v30 ,etc... From some sound samples in a DSL40c, my favorite was the Neo Creamback. But, in the end it just didn't seem like a big enough gain for the cash, switch and speaker break in .
I think tubes and tweeking the settings are the biggest net.

Definitely. I also tried a Creamback in this amp and the benefit was negligible...

 

[Inspector #20]

Put a different way....

I EQ for a lot of mids. This is a very 'in your face' tone. My mix of tubes and EQ takes the edge off the top end and brings upper the low end, while still retaining clarity.

 

[Bocc69]

Put a different way....

I EQ for a lot of mids. This is a very 'in your face' tone. My mix of tubes and EQ takes the edge off the top end and brings upper the low end, while still retaining clarity.

Wow, this is much easier than staffing my own R&D team. Thanks !!

 

[Inspector #20]

Wow, this is much easier than staffing my own R&D team. Thanks !!

And thanks to my buddy for the loan of his tubes...!!!!!!

 

[syscokid]

Oh, and a Tube Screamer is a 100% requirement.

I've been curious about this particular TS-9 that you're borrowing from ChasFred. Do you know if the opamp chip inside is a JRC4558?

 

[Inspector #20]

I've been curious about this particular TS-9 that you're borrowing from ChasFred. Do you know if the opamp chip inside is a JRC4558?

I'm not going to open it and risk messing something up. I am going to date it tonight by serial number...but maybe ChasFred has had it open and could say???

 

[Inspector #20]

Here's the Reaper. It has a 30 watt decal. I called Trevor Englisg at WGS and he offered to send me the correct 50 watt decal they were out of when it shipped...

 

[ChasFred]

I've been curious about this particular TS-9 that you're borrowing from ChasFred. Do you know if the opamp chip inside is a JRC4558?

Yes it is, unless I confused this one with another TS-9 that I work on. I installed it myself. If i remember right I even used an IC socket to install it with, and the boards are MAXON boards.