Hot Rodding a DSL40C???
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OP
You said it better than I ever could have!
No doubt.
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
Where you able to match the tone in the video you posted that started this whole Tube Screamer Bonanza?
OP
No...I can't get near that tone, but his EMG's may hit a lot harder than my passives.
OP
Ok....I started looking at this situation differently. It's not the speaker. The 55Hz is better suited to low frequency clarity. Trevor English at WGS confirmed this.
The DSL40C has more gain knob movement than it has useable gain. Once you get past 12 O' lock on the gain knob, the clarity starts to diminish.
Ok...so we now know that and we just limit our gain know movement to between 9am and Noon.
I swapped in a new Russian made Genelex B759 in V1 then proceeded to use tubes I had on hand that followed a descending order of gain - ending in V4 with a JJ5751.
Now, with 10am on the gain knob, i started fiddling with pedals and all that....but what I noticed was, the TS-9 took away some of the organic quality of the tone.
So then I started messing with the amp with only a 20 foot cable.
What I discovered was the best tone came from running mids full, bass at noon, treble at 11 and presence full up....followed by "Tone Shift" in for a high frequency cut, then resonance rolled up to 4pm.
With volume raised to 9pm (loud) the amp produced a very thick, deep tone with a very pronounced biting edge that was present, but not harsh. A very controllable tone that makes the g/b/e sound very full and big.
Palm mutes generate lots of speaker cone movement and good clarity...and all without pedals...
The DSL40C has more gain knob movement than it has useable gain. Once you get past 12 O' lock on the gain knob, the clarity starts to diminish.
Ok...so we now know that and we just limit our gain know movement to between 9am and Noon.
I swapped in a new Russian made Genelex B759 in V1 then proceeded to use tubes I had on hand that followed a descending order of gain - ending in V4 with a JJ5751.
Now, with 10am on the gain knob, i started fiddling with pedals and all that....but what I noticed was, the TS-9 took away some of the organic quality of the tone.
So then I started messing with the amp with only a 20 foot cable.
What I discovered was the best tone came from running mids full, bass at noon, treble at 11 and presence full up....followed by "Tone Shift" in for a high frequency cut, then resonance rolled up to 4pm.
With volume raised to 9pm (loud) the amp produced a very thick, deep tone with a very pronounced biting edge that was present, but not harsh. A very controllable tone that makes the g/b/e sound very full and big.
Palm mutes generate lots of speaker cone movement and good clarity...and all without pedals...
ChasFred
Ambassador of Smooth Operations
OP
This moves the pictures on the wall with complete clarity!
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
I am lost. I thought Chas was sending a TS 808
OP
OP
So many interesting things!!!!
The CS3 and GE7 sound great through the VS265, but don't really compliment the tone of the DSL40C.
The TS-9 does tighten and boost the mids, but it also adds a LOT of brightness. I'm not sure how to use that for a solo, as I generally prefer a fatter individual string tone on leads.
The CS3 and GE7 sound great through the VS265, but don't really compliment the tone of the DSL40C.
The TS-9 does tighten and boost the mids, but it also adds a LOT of brightness. I'm not sure how to use that for a solo, as I generally prefer a fatter individual string tone on leads.
OP
So, one of the things I discovered was using the presence to create an 'edge' and then dulling the edge slightly with resonance. It gives a kind of "of in the distance' tone that is very manageable even at high volumes.
OP
Even though I can't go much past 12 Noon with my gain, the amount of gain I have at 9-10pm is unreal.
OP
The question remains how best to use the TS-9. It really brightens things up.
OP
Made progress here too!
OP
I made big progress yesterday on the DSL40C. I had to abandon my theory and accept results. For some reason, the DSL40C has a gain knob that goes from zero to 10. However, at anything much past 12 noon, the gain isn't usable. It becomes to "gainy" and loose. In reality, you get the best tone and clarity at somewhere between 9:30 to 10:00 on the gain knob. Why Marshall allows so much higher, yet utterly unusable gain levels, is a mystery.
This is an anomaly I verified in other DSL's and also TTR forum member Don O verified the same condition on his own DSL40C. - High gain is available, but at increased gain levels, the amp sounds muddy, "pillowy," like a clogged up drain. The attack of the guitar note on palm muted passages is like a "splat, or a "farting noise."
Currently, I am running a Russian Genelex B759 (highest gain available) in V1 with a Marshall Red Label ECC83S in V2, a JJECC83MG in V3 and a JJ5751 in V4.
I chose this setup, based on tubes that I had on hand. It made sense to my head that the gain should start high and descend or 'cascade' to a lower value as the signal moved from V1 towards V4. Not sure there is any science behind that, but that's how I did it.
Here's my current settings. I'm using the 'Lead 1' position (this is red or drive channel #1 which is a lower gain setting) because 'Lead 2' really increases the gain level and things start to get undefined rather quickly:
As you can see, my gain knob is set to dial position 3. This is where I have the greatest clarity, even though I would like more "gain" or more saturation in the tone, I'm sticking wit this setting for the greatest clarity.
I started using the Tube Screamer TS-9 (on loan from TTR chum ChasFred) with drive at 10am and level full-up for a sort of clean boost, and this works very well. It does slightly - ever so slightly - increase the gain, makes the tone seem bigger, but doesn't squeal and feedback.
I also found a very cool setting....which gives a very Ratt/Robbin Crosby rhythm tone.
'Tone Shift' in, which is said to give a slight mid scoop, but I hear a high cut...which I counter with mids full-up. Then, I crank 'presence' and add 'resonance' to just dull the edge so it is tolerable to the ear at volume levels of 4-5.
The result is a very 3 dimensional sound, almost like two guitars are playing at the same time - one clean and one distorted...although it certainly sounds like it has less gain on tap than Crosby's tone.
The end result is a much better, much more usable tone, but only if I keep my gain settings really low...
More to follow...
This is an anomaly I verified in other DSL's and also TTR forum member Don O verified the same condition on his own DSL40C. - High gain is available, but at increased gain levels, the amp sounds muddy, "pillowy," like a clogged up drain. The attack of the guitar note on palm muted passages is like a "splat, or a "farting noise."
Currently, I am running a Russian Genelex B759 (highest gain available) in V1 with a Marshall Red Label ECC83S in V2, a JJECC83MG in V3 and a JJ5751 in V4.
I chose this setup, based on tubes that I had on hand. It made sense to my head that the gain should start high and descend or 'cascade' to a lower value as the signal moved from V1 towards V4. Not sure there is any science behind that, but that's how I did it.
Here's my current settings. I'm using the 'Lead 1' position (this is red or drive channel #1 which is a lower gain setting) because 'Lead 2' really increases the gain level and things start to get undefined rather quickly:
As you can see, my gain knob is set to dial position 3. This is where I have the greatest clarity, even though I would like more "gain" or more saturation in the tone, I'm sticking wit this setting for the greatest clarity.
I started using the Tube Screamer TS-9 (on loan from TTR chum ChasFred) with drive at 10am and level full-up for a sort of clean boost, and this works very well. It does slightly - ever so slightly - increase the gain, makes the tone seem bigger, but doesn't squeal and feedback.
I also found a very cool setting....which gives a very Ratt/Robbin Crosby rhythm tone.
'Tone Shift' in, which is said to give a slight mid scoop, but I hear a high cut...which I counter with mids full-up. Then, I crank 'presence' and add 'resonance' to just dull the edge so it is tolerable to the ear at volume levels of 4-5.
The result is a very 3 dimensional sound, almost like two guitars are playing at the same time - one clean and one distorted...although it certainly sounds like it has less gain on tap than Crosby's tone.
The end result is a much better, much more usable tone, but only if I keep my gain settings really low...
More to follow...
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
That seems to be the logic of most of the owners who have advised. Get the sound by keeping gain dialed lower.
OP
Probably my biggest problem is, I cannot get any kind of decent tone at low volumes. I have to crank this thing quite loud. My parents have been staying with us for the past 3 weeks, so I haven't been able to rehearse for Saturday's audition, let alone do any high volume testing....
OP
So, question...
What about a Genelex B759 in all (4) positions???
Or - Jj ECC83S's in place of the JJECC83MG in V3 and the JJ 5751 in V4???
Would that yield more gain, dial position ofr dial position???
I’m just curious if you tried going in the opposite direction with your preamp tubes?
Rather than high to low, I’m curious about the results going low to high.
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
In Robert's case, this is worth a try.
I really believe the 5751 is a mistake to use in this amp as the PI tube. The phase inverter tube is part of the power amp, and not the preamp. You might be slightly neutering the amp.