Snowflakery...

[Session 5]

Many young people here in Canada, are starting to figure it out, instead of throwing thousands and thousands out the window on University. They are realizing why am I doing this! Now many of them are getting into Trades. Plumbing, Elecrical, Pipefitting. Carpentry, Sheetmetal, Boilermakers, Painters, They all make really good money with paid benefits and Pension Plans. Any upgrade in Education pertaining to their work, or any future training is paid for by their Employer, can't get any better than that. These are all Union Contractors I am referring to.

 

[eSGEe]

And you COULD and you DID Grumpy -- and good on ya---- many do not ---

I didnt create the quote -- but it fits my experience -- yours may very -- they will ride up with wear ---wash rinse repeat

 

[DonP]

Just a thought. Here in the UK, increasingly large and small companies are starting to offer apprenticeships. This usually comes along with a one day a week college attendance in some related technical subject, finishing with a diploma which I - as a potential interviewer - would hold in far higher regard than a degree. It speaks of effort and practical knowledge, and will come from someone who was definitely not just looking for a way to spend four years getting drunk.

 

[smitty_p]

Just a thought. Here in the UK, increasingly large and small companies are starting to offer apprenticeships. This usually comes along with a one day a week college attendance in some related technical subject, finishing with a diploma which I - as a potential interviewer - would hold in far higher regard than a degree. It speaks of effort and practical knowledge, and will come from someone who was definitely not just looking for a way to spend four years getting drunk.

^^^ This needs a double-like button.

 

[BlackSG91]

Here's an entrepreneur who has implemented the "Snowflake" test for job applicants during an interview. Apparently he wants to weed out any Liberal "Snowflake" who are self-entitled that apply for a job and who are NOT proud of their country.

;>)/

 

[Mr Grumpy]

And you COULD and you DID Grumpy -- and good on ya---- many do not ---

I didnt create the quote -- but it fits my experience -- yours may very -- they will ride up with wear ---wash rinse repeat

It's case by case, but there are many folks who fit your description. My first uni job was in Thailand teaching business, which I had a lot of experience in; it was funny listening to the utter nonsense that some of the 'professors' were speaking about business (they had never done any, just learned decontextualized material from textbooks and uni courses...). I changed the courses entirely within 6 months, and I've met a few students many years later who are in the workplace and say that was the best course they ever learnt - real, practical, business skills.

Some professors are great, have good knowledge and experience, but obviously those who went through uni BA, MA and PhD level then went straight into teaching have no realworld experience (which may or may not matter depending upon the subjects they teach).

Just a thought. Here in the UK, increasingly large and small companies are starting to offer apprenticeships. This usually comes along with a one day a week college attendance in some related technical subject, finishing with a diploma which I - as a potential interviewer - would hold in far higher regard than a degree. It speaks of effort and practical knowledge, and will come from someone who was definitely not just looking for a way to spend four years getting drunk.

I completely agree, Don - education is a good thing, as is vocational skill development and experience; a blend of the two, in the way you outline, is a great balance.

 

[Gahr]

Im not "pooping on uni" -- however your friends who went and are teaching --fit perfectly into my statement---

for what its worth and in my experience at a certain level --- “He who can does; he who cannot, teaches.” --- but I run with a dangerous crowd...so....

AND TO BE CLEAR I am not pooping on teachers---

I know you're not really pooping on teachers, but still. Of course, the world needs people who can build things, fix your car, do plumbing, build houses etc. And at the moment there might not be enough of them being trained to do so. But would you have a plumber teach your kids biology or English? Would you have a carpenter be you lawyer? Or would you rather have someone with a university degree in the respective fields do it? In fact it is a problem in a lot of countries, Norway included, that there are NOT ENOUGH qualified teachers. My point is that most things taught in universities are indeed necessary and vital for an advanced society to function properly. The problem is that there are too many students that don't really finish what they start and that should have done something entirely different to begin with.

I have worked both blue collar jobs and I've been a teacher. I've been a lumberjack (and I was ok, but I didn't wear high heels, suspendies or a bra!), a lorry driver sideman, a warehouse worker and now a brewer. I have taught English, Norwegian, history, religion, biology and maths (and a host of other subjects as a substitute teacher). And boy, do I know that a whole lot of those who CAN definitely teach. And thank god for that, because we'd all be up faeces creek if they didn't. I worked in a school which had a pretty good reputation. Most of my colleagues were really good at what they did; they were well educated, interested in their fields, dedicated and had the pedagogics down. Most of the cats I met in my blue collar jobs were great people, really good at what they were doing and important members of society. But they would have been utterly lost if they were to teach, I'm afraid.

Another observation I have made is that most of the people I have met during both my studies and while working as an academic actually have experience working other "proper" jobs as well. Most of them have worked various jobs while they were students, in everything from factories to shops, and a lot of them (me included) worked different jobs after they finished their degree while waiting to get a job for which they had actually studied. But very few of the people I have met in my non-academic jobs have had much experience with "the other side". Interestingly it was always the people with the least experience with the "other side" (academic or non-academic) who used to talk crap about others. I am a firm believer in the importance of learning. Not just in the academic sense, but in learning about as many subjects, walks of life, cultures and people as possible. All academics should have some experience with non academic work, and all "non-academic" folks should learn a bit about what is really going on in the academic world. A lot of people would be surprised, and a lot of people would change their views of the people they don't know much about. There are idiots in all walks of life, but knowing what goes on outside of one's own sphere tends to reduce the ignorance in people somewhat.

Btw. eSGEe, this is not meant as an attack on you. If this is how I come across, I apologize. You strike me as an intelligent and easy to get along with fellow (albeit crazy as f***!) who seems to adhere to the idea of "live and let live". I just believe very strongly in learning. All knowledge is good when used right. Nothing you learn is wasted. Learning, regardless of the subject matter, improves you as a human being. The whole time I worked as a teacher, this was my goal and driving force. I wanted to teach the kids five things (in no particular order of importance): 1. To thirst for knowledge, regardless of the subject. 2. The actual subject I was teaching (mostly English and social science/history/geography). 3. To be nice to each other. 4. To be able to tolerate boredom. 5. To believe in themselves. The wider your knowledge is, and the larger your set of skills is, the more you will understand and respect other people. This, ultimately, makes it easier to get along with others and to contribute to society.

 

[eSGEe]

I feel not attacked one bit good Sir Gahr-- and I would HOPE you did or do not either/as well.

I welcome and enjoy debate and alternate opinion -- this is how (many times) I LEARN things --which I then use later as leverage in my overall plan for world domination!!!!

Dude I been in sales for 30+ years=--- my skin is so thick it takes a LOT to get me "going" --- really--

And the correct term is "crazy as a $hit house rat"

now that said -- your statement is true well worded intelligent and 110% correct--perhaps I am drawing from my own experiences where "instructors" who had never held a real paying job -- who went straight from college BACK to school to teach --- were telling MYSELF -- or (more recently) my son that "this is the way its done because its in the text book--- when uhm
no its not and secondly you don't know -- because yes you LEARNED the text book and can recite page 323 verbatim -- but -- you never ran a business-- or employed others or dealt with the reality of the outside of academia world ---

TO BE FAIR and to your side -- if you see it that way -- I had an EXCELLENT drafting teacher (also our shop teacher and yes he was missing the tip of his ring finger!) -- he had been an engineer and designer for diebold corp. He worked in the real world making things designing things engineering things and building things feeding his family and raising such on his efforts and skills--after early retirement he came BACK to teach others-- great guy-- and though he and I went ROUND AND ROUND about line thickness (this is when drafting was done BY hand no C.A.D. --ugh dont get me started--didnt even EXIST) lead holder "grip-tion" and why the drafting paper was GREEN not white---- we had a mutual hate for each other that worked into a respect -- good egg -- he didnt put up with my e nor I his --

ANd that is why I say there are exceptions -- conversely the business teacher -- knew NOTHING -- he never ran a business -- never had more than a part time job (to his own admission) and was totally horrid at both business concepts and teaching--

So good and bad in all--

Again I do hope you were not offended --- Im only offensive on odd numbered days and when I show up at the bar and have forgotten my pants----

 

[eSGEe]

and though he and I went ROUND AND ROUND

you have done some teaching -- can you imagine ME as a STUDENT----all the LIP of the current me but with boundless energy and penchant for being ANNOYING ???

the other kids would PAY ME (not exaggerating) to get the teacher OFF topic -- into a debate -- and WASTE time and ultimately the day for that class......see I been a ferengi since birth really

 

[Gahr]

I feel not attacked one bit good Sir Gahr-- and I would HOPE you did or do not either/as well.

I welcome and enjoy debate and alternate opinion -- this is how (many times) I LEARN things --which I then use later as leverage in my overall plan for world domination!!!!

Dude I been in sales for 30+ years=--- my skin is so thick it takes a LOT to get me "going" --- really--

And the correct term is "crazy as a $hit house rat"

now that said -- your statement is true well worded intelligent and 110% correct--perhaps I am drawing from my own experiences where "instructors" who had never held a real paying job -- who went straight from college BACK to school to teach --- were telling MYSELF -- or (more recently) my son that "this is the way its done because its in the text book--- when uhm
no its not and secondly you don't know -- because yes you LEARNED the text book and can recite page 323 verbatim -- but -- you never ran a business-- or employed others or dealt with the reality of the outside of academia world ---

TO BE FAIR and to your side -- if you see it that way -- I had an EXCELLENT drafting teacher (also our shop teacher and yes he was missing the tip of his ring finger!) -- he had been an engineer and designer for diebold corp. He worked in the real world making things designing things engineering things and building things feeding his family and raising such on his efforts and skills--after early retirement he came BACK to teach others-- great guy-- and though he and I went ROUND AND ROUND about line thickness (this is when drafting was done BY hand no C.A.D. --ugh dont get me started--didnt even EXIST) lead holder "grip-tion" and why the drafting paper was GREEN not white---- we had a mutual hate for each other that worked into a respect -- good egg -- he didnt put up with my e nor I his --

ANd that is why I say there are exceptions -- conversely the business teacher -- knew NOTHING -- he never ran a business -- never had more than a part time job (to his own admission) and was totally horrid at both business concepts and teaching--

So good and bad in all--

Again I do hope you were not offended --- Im only offensive on odd numbered days and when I show up at the bar and have forgotten my pants----

Not offended at all, my friend. But sometimes I like a good discussion.

I know I would have liked you if I were your teacher. The weird ones were always the most interesting ones!

 

[eSGEe]

I resemble that remark ---

Besides --- it makes the day "special" --- to be weird

 

[RobV]

I don't know where to start on this subject but around here we call it the pussification of America. I don't know if I want to get into a big old political debate as I am just tired of it. I will say it is hilarious the goal posts keep getting moved by the crazies while they won't admit to all the wrong doing they have done.

 

[DonP]

Here's an entrepreneur who has implemented the "Snowflake" test for job applicants during an interview. Apparently he wants to weed out any Liberal "Snowflake" who are self-entitled that apply for a job and who are NOT proud of their country.

;>)/

There are snowflakes on both sides of the political divide. It is more to do with being a millennial than anything else.

 

[eSGEe]

I don't know if I want to get into a big o ld political debate

Das political debates Es VERBOTEN! -- no really-- and this thread has been walking a very "thin" line (was that political?? E-- perhaps I should ban myself??? or eat a blue crayon they are nasty)

ANy way -- we can melt snowflakes and make gin -- but try to keep it non politcal rantish if possible please.....

oh yeah and Millenials are lazy!! SAn Dimas RULES! :dood:

-- man I need to get a life----

 

[eSGEe]

we can melt snowflakes and make gin

can this really be done?
Might almost make living in the North tolerable.............................

eh

no

 

[RobV]

Das political debates Es VERBOTEN! -- no really-- and this thread has been walking a very "thin" line (was that political?? E-- perhaps I should ban myself??? or eat a blue crayon they are nasty)

ANy way -- we can melt snowflakes and make gin -- but try to keep it non politcal rantish if possible please.....

oh yeah and Millenials are lazy!! SAn Dimas RULES! :dood:

-- man I need to get a life----

You can't have a Snowflake convo without it being political.

 

[eSGEe]

why?
is it a political party ? or is it an age/ entitlement group?
from Wiki --

Unique or special snowflake[edit]
Chuck Palahniuk has often been credited with coining the metaphorical use of snowflake[5] in his 1996 novel Fight Club. Fight Club contains the quote: "you are not special, you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake".[7]The 1999 film adaptation of the novel also contains this line.[7] In January 2017, Palahniuk directly claimed credit for coining the term, adding that the young adults of the 2010s exhibit "a kind of new Victorianism".[8]Palahniuk's claim has been questioned.[6] The unique as a snowflake metaphor has been used with elementary school students to celebrate their individuality and teamwork in a positive way.[9]

Following Fight Club, the terminology "special snowflake" and "special snowflake syndrome" was applied to individuals who behaved as if they were very special, but with a negative connotation.[10][11] Such terminology refers to a person who believes their status as a unique individual means that they are destined for great success or deserve a special career with abundant praise and admiration.[12][7][13] According to Merriam-Webster, in the 2000s, snowflake referred "mostly to millennials who were allegedly too convinced of their own status as special and unique people to be able (or bothered) to handle the normal trials and travails of regular adult life".[6]


This above would imply "snowflakes" may occur in any political faction --- so SNOWFLAKE itslef is non denominational "politically"

 

[RobV]

I agree there are snowflakes on both sides but as the talking points go and we start to get into examples like the guy punching the speaker on a university campus or blocking conservative speakers goes straight to politics.

 

[eSGEe]

AGREED and we need to avoid those ---

Does anyone really drink Gin? I mean outside of a proper Martini?

 

[smitty_p]

In other news, I hear “age-ism” may be a thing.

This is good news for me.

If this catches on, I’m approaching the age where I could join the ranks of the Perpetually-Offended.

I just need to think of a good chant for a protest....

“Hey, hey, ho, ho...staying up late has got to go!”

Or...

“What do we want?”

“A nap.”

“When do we want it?”

“Now!”

Move over millennials...The Boomers and Gen X’ers are back! And, yes, you WILL get off our lawn!