64' strat, 64' strat or 64' strat?

Mr Grumpy

Mr Grumpy

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Personally, I like the June 64' - the fuzzier blown sounds are great (in fact it's just about the only strat sound I really like), but I know some of you lot like the crispy cleans...

The difference could have been down to pickup height and/or slightly higher output on the June 64'. The custom shop, to be fair, sounded pretty good too. The Aug 64' seemed to lack bass and top end sparkle.

 
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Custom Shop destroys the two originals.

It's so weird to me, "vintage" Strats. These things were made on an assembly line as cheaply as possible by low-wage laborers, yet it now takes a dedicated team of master luthiers to recreate them? FFS, a Strat is a freaking widget, there is no f-ing magic in the old ones. Everything about a new CS Strat is superior to the old ones.
 
eSGEe said:
Im so confused-----older NOT gooder?
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No. Not in my experience anyway, but people attach "value" and attributes to things for all sorts of reasons. Sure there are good old guitars, but there even more newer ones which are just as good that don't cost as much as a car. There are also lots and lots of bad old guitars. And as this video clearly points out, just cos its old don't mean it sounds better: The CS guitar walked all over the originals on every amp setting.
 
People value whatever is trendy.

I call most of what people theorize about guitars pure BS.

Gball, you're nearly all right, just not entirely, as pre-CBS strats were not cheaply made at all... They were good guitars all around. Gibson felt that sting, for instance...

But you're right when you say that the modern good stuff can beat the old ones. And it doesn't take a 4 digit Custom Shop to do it, many American Standard and such will do the job. CS is highly overrated, though Fender's CS is much more of a "master luthiery" than Gibson's, IMHO.

Vintage guitars (Strats, Les Pauls, whatever) being Holy Grails and costing as much as Fabergé Eggs is merely a trend that has been around since like the 90s. There was no Custom Shop back in the 60s and 70s. Fender, Gibson and other brands would make you a custom guitar if you asked, and they'd do it according to what YOU asked them to do, hence the slightly higher cost.

The entire Custom Shop business has ran off the rails. Custom Shop was meant to build guitars to suit the customer's needs or to replicate older models... But now they're a dream factory for the ones who are willing to PAY MORE AND MORE... Nowadays, you see people who can't play two phrases on a guitar buying these Custom Shop jewels made by some star luthier, and waving them around saying they're wonderful because... they saw a comparison by Anderton's on youtube. I laugh my butt off when I see that.

Nor did anyone want to pay like $30,000 for a 50s Les Paul back in 1985. People would buy them for the fair price of a good guitar at pawn shops, it was no big deal. When Slash began to be known with a Les Paul hanging low on him, nobody cared much for Gibsons, they were what they've always been: good guitars.

Me? As a professional guitarist I don't need anything pricier or older than my standard Strats and my Rick 620 (btw Rickenbacker seems to be a brand that doesn't quite sell that kind of thing, they don't even have a Custom Shop as far as I know.

How did our idols buy their guitars? Lennon and Harrison sent a roadie to a local shop in London to fetch two identical blue standard strats. Page bought his Lesters used and modded. Krieger bought his SG because it was the cheapest Gibson that was around.
 
eSGEe said:
Im so confused-----older NOT gooder?
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The best answer is: not necessarily. Most oldies are definitely great guitars but many modern ones will do just as good and sometimes even better for musicians. Collecting is another thing.

And I don't mean just playability and tone.

Look at people's tastes for bridges... The Nashville ones are actually sturdier and more resistant than the ABR-1s. It's an improvement. But people state that the ABR is more desireable...

Strats? Well, over the years Fender has achieved a couple of developments on them, like 2-point tremolo bridges, better truss-rod access, better tuners, micro-tilt adjustment on the necks... But many guys will say that a guitar that you needed to remove the neck to adjust the truss rod, had fragile tuners, wouldn't be adjustable regarding neck angle and had a more primitive bridge and tremolo was much better. Well, to each his own.
 
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There are older guitars I like a lot. But, the only electric I have at the moment which is my Gibson USA M2. Got it being blown out the door a couple years ago by Amazon. It's new, it's cheap, and I like the way it plays and feels as good as about any guitar I've owned has played. Would like to swap out the pups for a Gibson P94's. But, I think two of them literally cost more than the guitar - lol.
 
What I have found 1 out of 200 original Fender guitars have the sound and they all sound different.
I have collected guitars for many years I would go to a guitar super store and only find 2-3 guitars that had it
I pluck the G string and if it rings I ask if I can set up the action and intonation. One time it was an import BC Rich 1 out of 150 BC Rich guitars.
 
67plexi said:
What I have found 1 out of 200 original Fender guitars have the sound and they all sound different.
I have collected guitars for many years I would go to a guitar super store and only find 2-3 guitars that had it
I pluck the G string and if it rings I ask if I can set up the action and intonation. One time it was an import BC Rich 1 out of 150 BC Rich guitars.
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Yeap. That is valid for most any brand. Guitars have personality, you’ll have to play many to find the one you really like
 
67plexi said:
What I have found 1 out of 200 original Fender guitars have the sound and they all sound different.
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I can attest to that -- It took me MANY MOONS and MANY stinkers bought and flipped---before I found a strat that FELT-- and SOUNDED the way I wanted-----

Im developing that FEEL Plexi--- (after buying 1/3 of the guitars in the U.S. -- and reselling them ---) Im finally learning to strum--- and if it DOESNT have that "thang" -- set it down and move on----
 
Drumoid said:
I don't even plug a guitar in until I've played it while unplugged. If I can't groove on it unplugged I put it back and move on.
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I'm actually a bit different. I don't play electric guitars unplugged, and I have found that sometimes certain guitars just come alive through the amp even if they feel kind of dead unplugged. I have one of those right now (an SG) - dead as a rock if you just pick it up and strum it, but an absolute monster when you plug it in.
 
gball said:
Everything about a new CS Strat is superior to the old ones.
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It certainly sounded good. &, they said how the frets were so much easier to play which must be a factor in the sounds you'll get out of a guitar. I'd like to play the CS64 side-by-side to an American professional and a Mexican standard to see what differences in feel and sound their were. I've only played various SGs back-to-back in store and found huge differences between models.

Sérgio said:
The entire Custom Shop business has ran off the rails
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Profits. We've probably all seen the Gibson CS videos where they bluntly state that old Gibsons were going for such huge sums that they wanted some of that business and started to make new-old stuff. I could imagine paying $2,500 or so for an absolutely stunning dream guitar that played like butter and made me sound like Hendrix, but beyond that is kinda insane. I know that spending $500 on a Mexican strat and $2000 on guitar lessons would help me sound better, but there's something about having a lovely guitar, armchair, car, house, etc that goes beyond the purely functional for many people.

Sérgio said:
Look at people's tastes for bridges... The Nashville ones are actually sturdier and more resistant than the ABR-1s. It's an improvement. But people state that the ABR is more desireable...
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I suspect that everyone knows the Nashville is a better bridge for intonation and stability, just some folks like the idea of keeping things looking as original as possible - and I can understand that.

67plexi said:
What I have found 1 out of 200 original Fender guitars have the sound and they all sound different.
Click to expand...
Sérgio said:
Yeap. That is valid for most any brand. Guitars have personality, you’ll have to play many to find the one you really like
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eSGEe said:
I can attest to that -- It took me MANY MOONS and MANY stinkers bought and flipped---before I found a strat that FELT-- and SOUNDED the way I wanted
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Do guitars have "it"? I don't know. I suspect it comes down to a wide variety of parametres (including how many cups of coffee you had that morning, and how the person sitting opposite you on the subway looked...), especially what we personally like. The nicest guitar I've played, as we know because I go on and on about it, is my 2018 SG Junior. It has a mojo beyond any other guitar I've ever played, but the general consensus is they are all that good, it's just a great model kicked out of the factory at a consistently high level.

Drumoid said:
I don't even plug a guitar in until I've played it while unplugged.
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I've never really understood this, & I'm not saying you're wrong, but for an electric, I wanna see how it sounds and 'feels' when playing plugged in.
 
Grumpy:

Yes, people like to own "all original" stuff. I do too! I understand that perfectly. My point is, how much is a reasonable price for one to have that made by a guitar maker? I wouldn't buy a CS for 3 times the price of a regular production reissue. It's all right to want a LP or SG with an ABR bridge, but you will often see people diss the newer bridges. That's not an intelligent attitude.

If guitars have "it", well, I think it depends highly on the factors you pointed out (how many cups of coffee you had that morning, and how the person sitting opposite you on the subway looked...), but regarding more the workers who built it than you who are playing it at the shop.

There are lemons and diamonds. My American Standard black strat is certainly a jewel. Everyone who plays it drools over it and offers me money for it. I have played this guitar live a lot, it's probably the guitar I've gigged the most with, and many times I had to defend it from other musicians who fell in love with it and wouldn't stop pestering me to sell it. And it is a regular, unmodded American Strat... The cats at Corona factory musta been quite inspired that week.

CS guitars will probably be more jewels than lemons, I mean IF there are proper lemons coming out of that section, after all they're all handmade by masters, but I doubt they are so much better than the American regulars in tone and playability to cost so much more.


As for comparing standard strats to CS 64s, I'd love to do a side by side try, too. Never did, only played those separately. But to me, they're too different in specs and properties to be properly comparable. Modern strats are more versatile and have pretty different pots and pups. I'd say the 64's sound more like a "one trick dog" (no dissing here), while an American Professional or Elite will give you a much wider palette of tones and be more of an all rounder for covering a lot of music...
 
Does a guitar have "it" --- sure it does -=- like women or cars or shotguns--
BUT also like women cars and shotguns -- what makes one "IT" for me -- might make another fella run to the hills screaming NO NO NO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOOOO---

so the "IT" is VERY VERY subjective and individual.

My strat ( I dearly LOVE) might make you all go WTF this SUCKS it has dings in the body and a stained 11th fret-- and WTF 5 springs on the trem!?!??! are you a GORILLA!>!! and I might play your guitar and go --- OH LORD HOW MUCH FATTER CAN THE NECK BE THAT IS CRAP MAN---or I might try and talk you out of it because I love it---

so the reality is --- its ALL what YOU like -- buy and play and mod and RAWK the FOOK outta WHAT YOU LIKE and damn the rest-- because a BILLION youtube videos will tell you THIS IS THE (insert gear item here) BEST SHITE EVER!!!! and you get it and it SUCKS purple Elephant TURDS! ---but you post the videos in your reverb ad showing HOW GREAT it is dont you??? dont you???
yes -- yes you do ---- ;) and life goes on........
 
eSGEe said:
Does a guitar have "it" --- sure it does -=- like women or cars or shotguns--
BUT also like women cars and shotguns -- what makes one "IT" for me -- might make another fella run to the hills screaming NO NO NO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NOOOO---

so the "IT" is VERY VERY subjective and individual.
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My thoughts exactly. One guitarist's jewel might be another guitarists turd.
 
The average I have paid for a Pre-Cbs Fender is $400.00 USD. Ten years back I got a 1956 Strat. for $550.00 sorry they blow away any so called Custom Shop.
I parted out over 2500 Custom Shop guitars and doubled my money my friend was a dealer and got them at cost. I did buy two Custom Shop Les Paul Standards
they were built by retards, Compared to the original Les Paul Standards and yes I own a few. They live in fire prof safes and never get played
I like one trick pony's. I live in a rain forest the weather conditions change constantly most of my vintage guitars will not stay in tune so I don't use them live.
 
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