OP
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
that's great... thanks! A lot of stuff I didn't know.
which is why I asked...
which is why I asked...
Gibson Mini Humbuckers: what amp do you use?
- Thread starter Col Mustard
- Start date
flatrockmobile
Well-Known Member
In the mid 70s, I played with a guy that had a LP Deluxe (minis), Marshall 50w head, and an 8-10 Marshall cabinet. This combination gave him a super sweet singing and creamy sustaining lead sound. No dirt pedals or master volume. Just loud a$$ Marshall grit and grind.
lynurdfireburd
Active Member
Good description on the FB pickup& clarifying how different it is from a mini. They share the same footprint in size only. That's where it ends.
I recall seeing a MM hooked up to the current minis being paraded as a FB pickup. It was 28k!
At least the Epi Bonamassa sig FB got it right. Accurate built FB pickup with blade mag in the bobbins wound up a touch more to 7.5ish.
FYI-carved down full size humbucker bobbins will fit in a FB cover.
Relic
Well-Known Member
I sorta remember this conversation from a couple years back over at you know where. LOL
If y'all remember, I had bought an SG model like Col's...
I liked the way she looked but I unfortunately had my issues with this guitar & ended up bringing it back. Mostly I was unhappy with the new redesigned mini-humbuckers.
First off let me state that I had been a Gibson mini-humbucker player for years before buying this newer version SG. I started with a '76 Les Paul Deluxe
Fell in love with the beautiful response from the mini-hums. They were a bit more focused than & full size humbucker & fatter sounding than a Strat, with a real vocal gurgle quality with both pups on, an awesome blues tone in the neck position & a full yet cutting lead (or rhythm) in the bridge position. And it all sounded like Rock 'n Roll Heaven through an of my tube amps but really kicked a$$ & shined through a vintage Marshall. Just perfect sounding stuff.
So I was hooked on the minis & off I went!
Next purchase was a 78 LP Deluxe with a factory Kahler Tremolo... pure awesomeness.
Then I grabbed a deal on a 72 Gibson Les Paul Signature Gold Top.
This ended up being a very cool guitar like a 335 meets LP Gold Top. The mini-hums can be run in stereo & has a 3 way selectable impedance switch. This baby has gotten lots of studio time. She sounds beautiful clean & can really start to sing at low volume & a good tube amp.
Then I couldn't resist picking up this 2001 LP Deluxe for a song on the bay.
This was the first time I noticed any response difference in pups as already the pups had changed several times by 2001 & I could detect what my ears discern as a little less liveliness & sweetness from these newer sealed pups. They sound good but are just that little bit less of a pick-up that the older one's were to my ears.
I also kept my eye out for older mini-humbucker pups for sale on ebay (remember, lots of players had to switch out their pups back in the day). and subsequently ended up using them in several guitar projects, like putting a pair in the neck & bridge position of my Schecter Ultra III.
(don't have new pic but for reference that's it before the pup switch out)
And the minis work great in them old Melody Makers & will fit it the single coil route without any extra fuss. Here is my 65 Melody Maker single with the mini. And yes.. She sings real sweet baby.
The reason I laid all this out is to support my point, which is, the new pups aint the old original pups & guys like me that have had the vintage stuff stand to potentially be disappointed if looking to relive past sonic glory in the new redesigned mini-hums. They are just two different beasts.
That said, I think the new pups sound 'pretty' enough when played clean, beautiful in fact. But the day I played that new 2012 Tribute SG at rehearsal through the Marshall tube amp that I just wailed through the week before using that 78 LP Deluxe pictured above, left me with no illusions that this set of pick-up's was not going to work easily for me.
What was the differences? Besides the bridge pup not being as loud as the neck pup despite serious adjustments in height to compensate (could have used pole pieces but whaaat... Gibson decided they aren't neccessary any more so fvk me right?) But basically other that that it was note definition & the EQ spread of frequency response. The new pups turned to muddy mush under the volume & drive I was used too, & I was using a 50 non-Master Volume Marshall from 1975 with EL 34's and hitting all the iconic tones & sounds I was used to just previously the week before & even once again after I switch back to a different guitar besides that Tribute SG.
Why this guitar lacked note definition & the character of the vintage minis are no doubt in Gibson's redesign. Could I have gotten used to them & made them work?? I think I could have to some extent. They were just different & not what I expected nor wanted in a new SG at this point in time.
The only point I'm trying to honestly present from my personal experience is that their is a difference between the old & the new despite the bull$#!t that Gibson sells us in their propaganda! But isn't that how it is with most other similar circumstances like this?
But yet real shame of it is that newer players don't have the experiences of playing the older vintage / original pups like I did & they aren't even going to know jack $#!t about anything being different or maybe lacking in the new redesign.
And because newbs will buy these guitars & these newly redesigned mini-hums are CHEAPER for Gibson to make, we can pretty much rest assured that Gibson won't make those original design (and some might say superior) mini-humbuckers any more!
And that my friends is the real shame of this.
I might even caution that we could see the same thing happen with the full-size humbucker now that Gibson has redesigned it with no adjustable pole pieces & is spreading that cheaper redesign into various model Gibson guitars!
Danger! Danger Will Robinson!
Maybe this is just how $#!t goes when ya get old huh? I seem to remember old folks saying things like "Heh heh heh, broke yer toy eh?? They don't make stuff like they used ta sonny boy. Heh heh heh"
And the world goes on?? Yup, still turnin' roun'. yee haa
If y'all remember, I had bought an SG model like Col's...
I liked the way she looked but I unfortunately had my issues with this guitar & ended up bringing it back. Mostly I was unhappy with the new redesigned mini-humbuckers.
First off let me state that I had been a Gibson mini-humbucker player for years before buying this newer version SG. I started with a '76 Les Paul Deluxe
Fell in love with the beautiful response from the mini-hums. They were a bit more focused than & full size humbucker & fatter sounding than a Strat, with a real vocal gurgle quality with both pups on, an awesome blues tone in the neck position & a full yet cutting lead (or rhythm) in the bridge position. And it all sounded like Rock 'n Roll Heaven through an of my tube amps but really kicked a$$ & shined through a vintage Marshall. Just perfect sounding stuff.
So I was hooked on the minis & off I went!
Next purchase was a 78 LP Deluxe with a factory Kahler Tremolo... pure awesomeness.
Then I grabbed a deal on a 72 Gibson Les Paul Signature Gold Top.
This ended up being a very cool guitar like a 335 meets LP Gold Top. The mini-hums can be run in stereo & has a 3 way selectable impedance switch. This baby has gotten lots of studio time. She sounds beautiful clean & can really start to sing at low volume & a good tube amp.
Then I couldn't resist picking up this 2001 LP Deluxe for a song on the bay.
This was the first time I noticed any response difference in pups as already the pups had changed several times by 2001 & I could detect what my ears discern as a little less liveliness & sweetness from these newer sealed pups. They sound good but are just that little bit less of a pick-up that the older one's were to my ears.
I also kept my eye out for older mini-humbucker pups for sale on ebay (remember, lots of players had to switch out their pups back in the day). and subsequently ended up using them in several guitar projects, like putting a pair in the neck & bridge position of my Schecter Ultra III.
(don't have new pic but for reference that's it before the pup switch out)
And the minis work great in them old Melody Makers & will fit it the single coil route without any extra fuss. Here is my 65 Melody Maker single with the mini. And yes.. She sings real sweet baby.
The reason I laid all this out is to support my point, which is, the new pups aint the old original pups & guys like me that have had the vintage stuff stand to potentially be disappointed if looking to relive past sonic glory in the new redesigned mini-hums. They are just two different beasts.
That said, I think the new pups sound 'pretty' enough when played clean, beautiful in fact. But the day I played that new 2012 Tribute SG at rehearsal through the Marshall tube amp that I just wailed through the week before using that 78 LP Deluxe pictured above, left me with no illusions that this set of pick-up's was not going to work easily for me.
What was the differences? Besides the bridge pup not being as loud as the neck pup despite serious adjustments in height to compensate (could have used pole pieces but whaaat... Gibson decided they aren't neccessary any more so fvk me right?) But basically other that that it was note definition & the EQ spread of frequency response. The new pups turned to muddy mush under the volume & drive I was used too, & I was using a 50 non-Master Volume Marshall from 1975 with EL 34's and hitting all the iconic tones & sounds I was used to just previously the week before & even once again after I switch back to a different guitar besides that Tribute SG.
Why this guitar lacked note definition & the character of the vintage minis are no doubt in Gibson's redesign. Could I have gotten used to them & made them work?? I think I could have to some extent. They were just different & not what I expected nor wanted in a new SG at this point in time.
The only point I'm trying to honestly present from my personal experience is that their is a difference between the old & the new despite the bull$#!t that Gibson sells us in their propaganda! But isn't that how it is with most other similar circumstances like this?
But yet real shame of it is that newer players don't have the experiences of playing the older vintage / original pups like I did & they aren't even going to know jack $#!t about anything being different or maybe lacking in the new redesign.
And because newbs will buy these guitars & these newly redesigned mini-hums are CHEAPER for Gibson to make, we can pretty much rest assured that Gibson won't make those original design (and some might say superior) mini-humbuckers any more!
And that my friends is the real shame of this.
I might even caution that we could see the same thing happen with the full-size humbucker now that Gibson has redesigned it with no adjustable pole pieces & is spreading that cheaper redesign into various model Gibson guitars!
Danger! Danger Will Robinson!
Maybe this is just how $#!t goes when ya get old huh? I seem to remember old folks saying things like "Heh heh heh, broke yer toy eh?? They don't make stuff like they used ta sonny boy. Heh heh heh"
And the world goes on?? Yup, still turnin' roun'. yee haa
Relic
Well-Known Member
Well what happened??
Was my post too long for consumption & comment??
Seems it may be the fate in today's hand-held fast paced world. Maybe the Col & I are the only two guys left interacting at home on a computer at our leisure with adequate time on our hands to write too damn much?? lol not sure.
Anybody out there making these new minis work under volume & drive while getting note definition in chords & singing response on lead work? Ya know, good ol 70's Rock n Roll guitar tone 101?
Anybody concerned with Gibson's trend of cheapening their guitars with redesigned pups, PCB circuitry or cheapo paint jobs while persistently moving their price points higher & higher despite the lowest inflation we've seen in years??
Does Gibson have PRS envy?
Anybody notice the basically unchanged SG Standard HP got a $200 price lift upward? While still making the G-Farce mandatory hardware (an approximate $200 item).
Sure it's a little off topic yet somehow it all touches & is intricately related isn't it?.. hmmm..
Was my post too long for consumption & comment??
Seems it may be the fate in today's hand-held fast paced world. Maybe the Col & I are the only two guys left interacting at home on a computer at our leisure with adequate time on our hands to write too damn much?? lol not sure.
Anybody out there making these new minis work under volume & drive while getting note definition in chords & singing response on lead work? Ya know, good ol 70's Rock n Roll guitar tone 101?
Anybody concerned with Gibson's trend of cheapening their guitars with redesigned pups, PCB circuitry or cheapo paint jobs while persistently moving their price points higher & higher despite the lowest inflation we've seen in years??
Does Gibson have PRS envy?
Anybody notice the basically unchanged SG Standard HP got a $200 price lift upward? While still making the G-Farce mandatory hardware (an approximate $200 item).
Sure it's a little off topic yet somehow it all touches & is intricately related isn't it?.. hmmm..
Paul G.
Well-Known Member
Don't take offense. Nothing to add or comment on.
I kinda, sorta semi-agree on some things, but know it's just my opinion. I am personally not a fan of recent Gibson pickups, but I know others are happy, so why bust the proverbial balloon?
I am a fan of recent Gibsons, having owned Gibsons from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and current era, I think they are making some great guitars right now.
The wood isn't as good, but then again, it can't be. They are making really good quality players instruments, and, as a player, that's all I'm looking for. I've got a friend who has a collection of the finest Custom Shop and Vintage guitars I've ever seen. Can't play a lick.
P
I kinda, sorta semi-agree on some things, but know it's just my opinion. I am personally not a fan of recent Gibson pickups, but I know others are happy, so why bust the proverbial balloon?
I am a fan of recent Gibsons, having owned Gibsons from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and current era, I think they are making some great guitars right now.
The wood isn't as good, but then again, it can't be. They are making really good quality players instruments, and, as a player, that's all I'm looking for. I've got a friend who has a collection of the finest Custom Shop and Vintage guitars I've ever seen. Can't play a lick.
P
Relic
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right on all points. Gibson is making good enough guitars (I have issues with several things like nibs & mandatory G-Farce tuners making the guitars less than what they should / could be) and plenty of new purchasers seem to be buying, except in 2014,14 & 16, but some models (cheaper) sold great.
However, it saddens me to see the cheapening changes & the loss of some truly great things that Gibson offered in the past. But again, there are plenty of new buyers that render people like me & my concerns for all intent & purposes... irrelevant. Gibson can easily sell guitars without appeasing my concerns & desires.
Gibson is not my company & the things Henry J does & pushes often leaves me scratching my head. But I am a purist that looks as a guitar as an instrument that should be made well & allow musicians to best express themselves. The fact is that now, Gibson is a company that has making money as priority one. Sometimes that gets in the way of seeing 'what's best for the guitar' & yields way to seeing 'what's best for our bottom line' win the day.
This is what happens when companies like Gibson grow & get sold & get bought up as 'investments'. The company is now motivated by ego (of the owner) & greed (the need to make money for investors / shareholders) while what's best for the guitar & guitar player gets held in the balance.
It is a different dynamic than the days of Ted McCarthy despite the underlying need to stay profitable & important in the music scene.
Yet still.. I dream & hope for a better tomorrow. I'm actually fine buying used Gibson's that make me happy & meet my needs, especially when an SG Standard HP runs $1700.oo & comes with a mandatory G-Farce tuner that I just don't want or need.!. I can buy a damn good used Gibson instrument that will hold it's value & appreciate for that price.
@Relic, mi compadre...I read every single word!
I very much appreciated the detail with which you described your experience and impression of minis over the years.
Fret not!
For me, my only mini-humbucker experience is my '74 SG. I like it and it has a good vibe.
The newer minis don't interest me too much, though. I can't say entirely why. I've never heard them in person to offer a reasoned opinion.
In a way, I guess I'm soured by what I see as a lot of gimmickry from Gibson. To me the icing on the cake was the '50s Tribute SG. Now, I'm not passing judgement on the guitar, itself. But to come out with a guitar that is ~supposedly~ made the way they ~would~ have been made IF they had been made in the '50s just strikes me as weird spit-balling around the boardroom table. Again, that is not to bash the guitar. But, the PR angle is just sort of silly.
What does this have to do with the new mini-humbuckers? Well...not much! But, I don't get the need for a redesign. Again, I have no experience with them. Col Mustard likes his and I can't judge another man's experience. But, I don't quite follow the need for a redesign of a very nice and respected pickup.
In my mind, if they had REALLY wanted to do a '70s tribute, they should have done a harmonica bridge, too!
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Relic
Well-Known Member
I guess you's talk'n bout my little mini-hum pictorial JG so thanks man. I love me a guitar ya know. LOL
Smitty !!!!!!! "Fret not!!!" arh arh arh Too funny Bubby.. too funny.
It really is all about the MONEY Sonny! I was surprised when Gibson was doing their heavy PR (propaganda.. just keep repeating things until people believe them true!) on this 'new minihumbucker' that they openly admitted they had found a "CHEAPER" way to make them.
Plain & simple fellas, this was not about making a better pickup. This was about making a cheaper to manufacture pickup!
Funny thing is there are plenty of people that actually like this new pup & it is only relics like me that are disappointed because I believed the Gibson hype about this pup sounding like the original mini-humbucker (aka.. lifting my expectations) and was truly (yes truly) disappointed & heartbroken when I bought that beautiful SG 70's Tribute (see pic below) and found the pups to not only be significantly different from the original pup they replaced but also felt let down when the pups couldn't deliver when it mattered most.. as in a my band situation playing Classic Rock. My hopes were built up, I bit the lure, and in the end I felt tricked & played for a fool that wanted these pups to be the answer that worked for me.
I mean look at this guitar! Who doesn't want that guitar to work for you!??
Yer damn right I was heartbroken when I couldn't make this work for me. And yes goddammit I tried! Believe that, I tried. Sure I could have changed the pups but that's missing the point of these new cheaper redesigned mini-hums not being equal to nor able to perform at the same level as the predecessor they replaced.
So to me Smitty, in my mind given the evidence submitted by Gibson themselves & by my personal experience here, there really is absolutely no doubt this was about saving fvk'n money. Way to go Gibson! Once again you choose money over all else. Shame for shame & bravo for the bottom line at the expense of tradition, quality & expressive beauty.
Yet my sour grapes aside, I'm smart enough to know that as long as people like these pups & buy these guitars it really doesn't matter what the hell I think or what my experience is.
I get that.
Thus is the life of the Relic man.
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OP
Col Mustard
Ambassador of Perseverance
For me, one of the cool things about the minis is that they don't sound like anything else.
...and being blissfully ignorant of the virtues of the past (just like Relic described),
I'm happily playing music with mine. *shrugs
Another cool thing is the interchange factor... if you can't dig your new minis, get a set of
P-90s , screw 'em in and keep on keeping on. But if you've had as many awesome guitars
as our ol' Relic, you have a right to be hard to impress. I get that too.
Hence this thread. I'm still interested in other's experiences with these "controversial" p'ups
and wanting to get the best out of mine without swapping them out or seeking a vintage instrument.
So keep 'em coming. I appreciate all the input from this forum, and everyones unique
experiences... and especially all those pictures.
...and being blissfully ignorant of the virtues of the past (just like Relic described),
I'm happily playing music with mine. *shrugs
Another cool thing is the interchange factor... if you can't dig your new minis, get a set of
P-90s , screw 'em in and keep on keeping on. But if you've had as many awesome guitars
as our ol' Relic, you have a right to be hard to impress. I get that too.
Hence this thread. I'm still interested in other's experiences with these "controversial" p'ups
and wanting to get the best out of mine without swapping them out or seeking a vintage instrument.
So keep 'em coming. I appreciate all the input from this forum, and everyones unique
experiences... and especially all those pictures.