Tone Controls:

Inspector #20

Inspector #20

Ambassador of Tone
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When I started building the TwinBucker StageCrafters, I went with quality parts, like 500k CTS pots and .022uf Sprague Irange Drops. However, I didnt like the muddiness of the tone controls.

Generally, this decision was traditional in nature, and I've started deviating from this more and more because of how limiting it makes the tone control circuit.

Yesterday, while visiting The Ranch, I re-wired Mom's Von Herndon Stagecrafter #16 to convert it from a kill switch (her request) to a bridge coil tap. I also removed the .022uf Orange Drop in favor of a 0.01uf box capacitor.

20190902_200633.jpg

What a phenomenal improvement!!!!

Now, the tone control is useable over the knob's entire range of motion and it gives much more character.

What are you doing to change your tone control circuits???
 
Robert Herndon said:
What are you doing to change your tone control circuits???
Click to expand...

I only change the tone circuit if I feel it needs it. In three out of my seven electric guitars, I haven’t felt the need to change a thing. In my Strat I’ve only soldered a 220k resistor from the bridge pickup to ground. But, I’ve not touched the actual tone circuit. So, I guess that’s pretty much four out of seven with the original tone circuit components.

My needs have been met by changing either the tone pot values, capacitor values, or both.

What you do is going to be influenced by the pickups, themselves, and the rest of the rig.
 
smitty_p said:
I only change the tone circuit if I feel it needs it. In three out of my seven electric guitars, I haven’t felt the need to change a thing. In my Strat I’ve only soldered a 220k resistor from the bridge pickup to ground. But, I’ve not touched the actual tone circuit. So, I guess that’s pretty much four out of seven with the original tone circuit components.

My needs have been met by changing either the tone pot values, capacitor values, or both.

What you do is going to be influenced by the pickups, themselves, and the rest of the rig.
Click to expand...

Generally, I find the tone muddy and useless below about 7 on the dial.
 
After speaking with Robert about the loss of definition & tone turning to mud below 7 on the dial I fitted most of my 'bucker equipped guitars with 0.01uf (K40Y-9) tone caps. I agree Robert, it is a great improvement, making the pot's whole range useable. Regarding the bridge pickup however, for general rhythm playing I found I needed the tone control down in the vicinity of "3" on the dial. So, on Monday (when they arrived in the post), I fitted my LP traditional's bridge pickup with a 0.015uf tone cap. I have only used it at home through my 5F1 Champ clone so far, but this value does seem better for the bridge pickup with the control being between 5 & 6 for most rhythm type playing. I'll see how it goes at rehersal tonight through my 4 hole 50 Watter (which is quite a bit brighter than the Champ) & most likely use this value for all bridge pickups. Thanks for the tips Robert. Cheers
 
ivan H said:
After speaking with Robert about the loss of definition & tone turning to mud below 7 on the dial I fitted most of my 'bucker equipped guitars with 0.01uf (K40Y-9) tone caps. I agree Robert, it is a great improvement, making the pot's whole range useable. Regarding the bridge pickup however, for general rhythm playing I found I needed the tone control down in the vicinity of "3" on the dial. So, on Monday (when they arrived in the post), I fitted my LP traditional's bridge pickup with a 0.015uf tone cap. I have only used it at home through my 5F1 Champ clone so far, but this value does seem better for the bridge pickup with the control being between 5 & 6 for most rhythm type playing. I'll see how it goes at rehersal tonight through my 4 hole 50 Watter (which is quite a bit brighter than the Champ) & most likely use this value for all bridge pickups. Thanks for the tips Robert. Cheers
Click to expand...

Gotta say...it depends on the pickups and the rig.

Pickups with more winds will be more inductive....thus...darker. They will likely be good candidates for lower capacitance (Lower uF) tone caps.

My point?

Any person's choice of components may be a good fit in one application, yet may not be entirely suitable for another.
 
ivan H said:
After speaking with Robert about the loss of definition & tone turning to mud below 7 on the dial I fitted most of my 'bucker equipped guitars with 0.01uf (K40Y-9) tone caps. I agree Robert, it is a great improvement, making the pot's whole range useable. Regarding the bridge pickup however, for general rhythm playing I found I needed the tone control down in the vicinity of "3" on the dial. So, on Monday (when they arrived in the post), I fitted my LP traditional's bridge pickup with a 0.015uf tone cap. I have only used it at home through my 5F1 Champ clone so far, but this value does seem better for the bridge pickup with the control being between 5 & 6 for most rhythm type playing. I'll see how it goes at rehersal tonight through my 4 hole 50 Watter (which is quite a bit brighter than the Champ) & most likely use this value for all bridge pickups. Thanks for the tips Robert. Cheers
Click to expand...

0.01uf on this one too....

20211124_153648.jpg
 
smitty_p said:
Gotta say...it depends on the pickups and the rig.

Pickups with more winds will be more inductive....thus...darker. They will likely be good candidates for lower capacitance (Lower uF) tone caps.

My point?

Any person's choice of components may be a good fit in one application, yet may not be entirely suitable for another.
Click to expand...

I just cannot accept a knob with so much unusable dark muddiness. Now, the tone knob is useable across its entire 360° range of motion...
 
I built this (assembled it rather) from an old nickel-silver baseplate, one bobbin of a Gibson 490, one bobbin from a Duncan SH 55 (IIRC) maple spacers, a machined metal spacer bar and along, polished Alnico 4 magnet...

20211124_143755.jpg
 
smitty_p said:
Gotta say...it depends on the pickups and the rig.

Pickups with more winds will be more inductive....thus...darker. They will likely be good candidates for lower capacitance (Lower uF) tone caps.

My point?

Any person's choice of components may be a good fit in one application, yet may not be entirely suitable for another.
Click to expand...

It's funny in a way that I hear so many bands playing live and their tone is muffled as if the guitarists amp is locked in another room and you are hearing it from the crack under the door.
 
I think lower value tone caps may become a pretty popular mod as more players turn on to them.
It's certainly a finer degree of control, being able to use the full sweep of a tone knob instead of just 7 to 10.
Might take a while to catch on - I think most of us are accustomed to using just the upper part of the range most of the time.

I see .022s or .033s catching on now with many singlecoil players, in place of the traditional .045/.05 (or .1uF on pre-CBS Fenders).
Of course there will always be some who want the dark, jazzy effect of .047 - a few even go extra bassy with the vintage .1uF cap.
Still, I think in general the trend is moving in the opposite direction.

Some are using extremely small caps - I've read interesting posts about using a 1nF (.001uF) with bright low-output PAF types.
It's said not to darken the overall character much, just to roll off the "harsh," smoothing without really cutting much treble.
Also reportedly gives a slight hump in the midrange, a subtle vowel sound reminiscent of cocked wah tone, though far less peaky.

Seems like that'd be especially helpful with bright amps like Fenders, perhaps less useful through something with fat mids.
As for the aggressive mids of Marshall types I'm not sure, though smoothing the harsh when desired sounds like a good thing.
Of course it'll behave somewhat differently with various different pickups.

I have yet to try 1nF in one of my PAF-loaded guitars but I'll get around to it, probably on the bridge pickup.
One of these days.
 
Last edited:
Robert Herndon said:
Don,

How does that compare to the 0.01uf that @ivan H and I favor??? More or less high frequency rolloff???
Click to expand...
It’s all about how “dark“ ya want to go with the control. The tone control is just a variable low pass filter using the equation for the -3db cutoff frequency:

1/(6.28*R*C)

The larger the cap value the lower the cutoff frequency and hence the darker the sound (less highs).
 
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