Gibson Guitar Differences

H

Hector

Guest
Well, tonight I'm playing my ebony SG Special.

This is a guitar that I bought used.. from a German guy... for dirt cheap (+/- 380 USD)

It's got scratches on the scratch plate, some light scrapes on the back from shirt buttons, and on the headstock, above the Gibson logo, is a crescent moon shaped indent of what can only be the teeth you find on the bottom of a beer bottle. Needless to say, I love this guitar.

But I keep asking myself this: with all the "damage" to it, why does it play so much better than any other Gibson I've owned, including an LP Standard that cost 15x as much, an LP BFG and my SGJ ? I mean, according to the factory tour videos on Youtube, Gibson guitars are milled by CNC machines with rather little "hand craftsmanship" compared to 50 years ago (other than rough cutting of blanks and sanding/polishing).

In comparison, my Framus is by far the nicest playing guitar I have and each Framus that I've tried has been within 5% of the one I own (Framus are also CNC milled, right down to the radiusing of the fret boards being done by machine).

I'm not knocking Gibson, but what's the dynamic in place where one Gibson can be incredible, one to be just "ok" and one be a total dog ?
 
Because the SG has probably been set up correctly and was most likely massaged by a skillful former owner.
In other words, it was loved and played.
CNC is only part of the equation. The guitar is still assembled by people.
CNC only makes the parts uniform.
Some people are better than others at what they do.
It's a crap shoot, you got lucky this time.

Enjoy it and don't question your good fortune.
 
Ok, but why is it a crap-shoot with some makers (Gibson) and not with others (Framus) ?

I wouldn't agree about the "skillful former owner", he wasn't from what I saw. I have a very skillful luthier that sets-up my guitars, and still the one ebony SG is better than than the SGJ. They have the same pickups (different PCBs), the same shape of neck (but the Special has a mahogany neck, the SGJ a maple neck). It doesn't seem logical that one is "better" than the other, considering the manufacturing processes involved.
 
Maybe the owner before the one you got it from was the skillful former owner.
Someone obviously spent some time with that guitar.
Different neck woods may play partially into this, but I'll leave that for others to debate.
Maple is said to be brighter than mahogany, that is said to be a warmer in tone, but it's just the neck.
Is the difference just playabilty? Or does better tone enter into the picture?
Same pickups are still made by different people, different shifts, different days.
You got a good one.
 
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Hackmaster said:
Same pickups are still made by different people, different shifts, different days. You got a good one.
Click to expand...

Yes.
You never want a "Friday afternoon " guitar.
Wednesday and Thursday guitars are a good bet.
The people have recovered from their weekend by then.
 
Can you imagine the amount of wood and employees that Gibson has to go thru, compared go what Framus uses. It would appear that based on what Framus charges for their guitars, that they can afford to be more selective and consistent.
 
I just have to say this: Gibson guitars have always had a high reputation... which has always
been marred by sub standard instruments which somehow made their way into the public. I grew up about a hundred twenty miles from Kalamazoo. I delivered newspapers as a young teen, and these papers reported on the labor problems faced by Gibson management in Kalamazoo in the 1960s when they were producing the "best" SGs (according to "common wisdom" of 2017. In those days, Les Pauls were discontinued due to lack of interest. The SG
was supposed to be the Next Big Thing.

In addition to delivering newspapers which reported (accurately) about Gibson's factory woes,
I was also learning to play guitar, and trying to figure out which guitar to buy if I ever earned any money to speak of. "Common Wisdom" of 1966 said that some Gibsons were excellent and some were NOT. AND the only way to get a good one was to play lots of them, and pick
the one that sounded and/or felt the best.

Surprise, surprise... that wisdom still holds today. In spite of computer controlled factory
machines which will cut and shape instruments to very fine tolerances, some Gibsons are
excellent and some are disappointing. I don't understand why, and I'm sure that Gibson's
efficiency experts don't understand it either. They ought to know, but they don't... it seems.

Lucky me, I bought a Gibson FJN acoustic in like 1966 when I was 18,
and it was an excellent instrument that I played with joy and flair
until it was stolen from me in 1978. I've always been a Gibson fan... as well as a
Fender Bass player. For me, there is no conflict here. I wish Gibson well. If I could
twitch my nose and help them solve their Quality Control problems... I would do it.

But for guitarists of the 21st Century, you have to go where they sell them, and play as
many as they'll let you. Pick the one that comes alive in your hands. That's how you know. Play it till it screams. Whip out your master card and take the lady home.
Get her set up by an expert, and then rock till you drop.
 
True Col, but if you walk into a GC...

You will be ignored for at least 20 minutes per store policy.
After finally tackling a "salesperson" your request to try
an instrument will be answered with, "Are you gonna buy it?"
The guitars on the wall will all be pretty much unplayable.
They are not set up. Hell, they're not even remotely tuned.
If you find a playable one, try it and ask to try another,
the "salesperson" will say 'OK" and go to lunch.

You will then get disgusted and go across the street to Sam Ash.
Soon after that you will wish you had stayed in Guitar Center.
 
Some of us can't hop right down to a Gibson dealer. I have bought a few new straight off the rack on sale thru the mail Gibson's and I honestly can't say any of them were bad guitars playing or sounding straight out of the box. Sure some tweaks will make them better or more suited to your likes but that isn't any different from any other guitar or brand you buy.

50's Satin Honeyburst Tribute HB LP -$650
60's Satin Black Tribute P-90 LP - $599
70's Satin Sunburst Tribute Mini HB LP - $599
LP Jr Gloss HB Special x2 (Black & Cherry) - $550 each
SG Faded Red Special - $499
LP Special Pro Honeyburst - $699
LP Faded Red Special -$499
SG HB Melody Maker Black - $299 (gave to my son in law as a gift)

None of these guitars have ever made me say damn I wasted my money or I should have bought something else. As I said before I had bought & traded a lot of guitars trying what I like & the end of the year clearances were great time to buy & try & flip for your cash back if you didn't like it. I wish I would have kept a few more of those but I was building my son an 87' Iroc Z & wanted it done before he got back from Afghanistan & bought a house at the same time :)

To add I have stopped down at a GC and tried a couple Gibson's there and can see why some think they are garbage. I tried an SG Faded & SGJ there and both were not set up well or sorta spanked from every tom dick & harry like me stopping in & spanking on them with out being set up really.
 
to me, that's very weird... why would any guitar store that cares about their sales
allow guitars to be on display for customers to try out without being set up properly.

That's just weird. How can you sell a guitar if it's hard to play? The answer is, you probably
can't sell it.

My last experience with GC was sort of like that. I was itching so bad for a P-90 guitar, I finally made
my mind up that I ought to have one. I was going to get the classic Epiphone Casino, till I heard about
the Epi Casino Coupe. This was during the great 2015 Gibson bash-fest when "Gibsons Suck" was being
said falsely all over every guitar forum. But the Epi Casino Coupe seemed to be everything I wanted.
Plus a couple hundred less than the full size model, which seemed to lose its importance when compared.

So I went where they sold them, and asked the pimply faced punk that I found loitering behind the counter
if they had the Epiphone Casino Coupe. He didn't know what I was talking about, and looked at me as if
I were his disoriented grandfather, thinking I was in a car dealership. I told him it was a hollow body arch
top guitar with P-90 pickups, and he waved at the south wall and said they had some hollow bodies over
there.

I walked over by my self, and found that they didn't stock the Epi Casino Coupe, but they did stock the
Epi ES-339 P-90 pro. I took the Epi down without asking permission, and went to the counter to see if
they had a cable I could use. On the way there, I spotted one on top of an amp, and grabbed that.
Then I went to see what I could plug it into, and listened to another customer playing a Strat through
an Orange Micro Terror. That sounded so fine, but I plugged the Epiphone into a Fender Blues Junior and
tuned it up, and then played for a while, admiring the good sound of the P-90s. When the other guy was
through with the Orange demo amp, I plugged the Epiphone into that, and got a whole 'nother tone that
I really liked. Someone had set the Epiphone up just fine... action and intonation were fine for a demo.

Then I put everything back where I'd found it, and went home and ordered the Epiphone ES-339 P-90 Pro
and the Orange Micro Terror from Musician's friend, paid no shipping, no sales tax and got a coupon
discount too. Guitar Center is doomed if they can't do any better than that.

What I paid online for my Epi ES-339 was about half the price of the vaunted Epiphone Casino,
AND about 1/8 the price of the Gibson ES-339.
Both guitars have plywood top. I was patriotic in 2015, (not like now) but not
patriotic enough to pay Gibson's elevated 2015 prices. Buying this Epiphone was my vote in
the Great 2015 Gibson Bash Fest. *shrugs ...That Epi is actually a great guitar.
 
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Col. I totally agree/relate with that experience. Very nice on the Epi 339. I haven't tried the Micro Terror but here a lot of good things about it. I was thinking about the CR120 also until I ran into Frank's deal for the OR15. I am very pleased with it!
 
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