Bobby
Well-Known Member
Maybe look @ the Russian mil surplus caps on ebay. They're cheap & I'd imagine there's plenty over by you so shipping should be very reasonable.
50's vs. Modern Wiring
- Thread starter WavMixer
- Start date
Maybe look @ the Russian mil surplus caps on ebay. They're cheap & I'd imagine there's plenty over by you so shipping should be very reasonable.
flatrockmobile
Well-Known Member
Has anyone ever tried the Black Rose wiring mentioned? I can't find much on the web about it.
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
Yes, I have, & most people probably have without knowing it, regardless of the pickup & control configuration. Most modern guitars use this scheme. Ibanez always have. Hold on a sec & I'll go & check my Jackson. Yep, same scheme of connecting the single volume & tone control. Cheers
Edit; I should add, it is called "black rose" wiring because (I think) Rose custom guitars started using the same scheme that is used in all Ibanez's etc in Gibsons. It was to overcome the treble loss of Gibson's modern scheme when turning the volume down & also to overcome the interactivity of the volume & tone inherent to the 50's wiring scheme. Cheers
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deci belle
New Member
The Modern, 50s, "Black Rose" and single 50s wiring diagrams in this thread are great!
I just got a Chinese epi '55 LP with surprisingly nice Gibson p90s. Now I see it came with the 50s style wiring— so no doubt that has something to do with how tonefully usable the full-size pots are on this guitar. I cleaned up the control cavity a little bit when I put in some old Bumblebee caps I got from my Los Alamos Labs mad-scientist neighbor.
I found out that two of the pots are 500k, one is 460k and one is 520k. I used the 520k on the neck volume and the 460k on the bridge volume. I spaced and forgot to check each pickup's DC resistance while everything was disconnected, but I understand that they are the same. I like that they don't sound ONLY overwound/muddy. I get lots of clarity and bright tone when I want it.
I had to drill a 4" x 1/8" hole to route an extra ground wire to the strings because I took off the tail-piece and installed a B7 Bigsby.
I just got a Chinese epi '55 LP with surprisingly nice Gibson p90s. Now I see it came with the 50s style wiring— so no doubt that has something to do with how tonefully usable the full-size pots are on this guitar. I cleaned up the control cavity a little bit when I put in some old Bumblebee caps I got from my Los Alamos Labs mad-scientist neighbor.
I found out that two of the pots are 500k, one is 460k and one is 520k. I used the 520k on the neck volume and the 460k on the bridge volume. I spaced and forgot to check each pickup's DC resistance while everything was disconnected, but I understand that they are the same. I like that they don't sound ONLY overwound/muddy. I get lots of clarity and bright tone when I want it.
I had to drill a 4" x 1/8" hole to route an extra ground wire to the strings because I took off the tail-piece and installed a B7 Bigsby.
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syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
deci belle
New Member
haha!! Meeooowwwww, syscokid!!
Ya, I joined a while ago when I got "head-hunted" from another forum by mr Wav cuz I'm a tone-tweakin' knob-twister…
Ya, I joined a while ago when I got "head-hunted" from another forum by mr Wav cuz I'm a tone-tweakin' knob-twister…
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
I didn't know that Gibson used the "Modified Modern" (aka Black Rose) scheme at all, but it seems that this is the way that "two P90" guitars are being wired. Not sure how long they've been doing this as I know originally two P90 guitars used the vintage or 50's scheme. Here's the cavity of my recently acquired 2010 50's tribute LP
As you can see it appears stock & uses the Black Rose scheme. I looked into it as, although happy with the guitar as a whole, I don't like the way the controls act, especially so in the "in between" position. Looking online it seems most all diagrams show two P90's wired this way
Another thing is Gibson used 300k volume pots (again. My 3 Gibson's came with 300k volume pots). I have two CTS 500k Linear pots ordered, along with a sheet of conductive adhesive copper foil (I have the copper ribbon already) to shield it with. I prefer Linear volumes as I get more useable range with them. Before installing I open the pots & carefully shave the outer edge of the carbon resistive element (down near the "0" end) to bring them up to 500k as most meter a bit low I find. I have K40Y-9 paper in oil caps, 0.015uf for the neck & 0.022uf for the bridge (that meter correctly) to go into it, 50's wiring of course. Cheers
As you can see it appears stock & uses the Black Rose scheme. I looked into it as, although happy with the guitar as a whole, I don't like the way the controls act, especially so in the "in between" position. Looking online it seems most all diagrams show two P90's wired this way
Another thing is Gibson used 300k volume pots (again. My 3 Gibson's came with 300k volume pots). I have two CTS 500k Linear pots ordered, along with a sheet of conductive adhesive copper foil (I have the copper ribbon already) to shield it with. I prefer Linear volumes as I get more useable range with them. Before installing I open the pots & carefully shave the outer edge of the carbon resistive element (down near the "0" end) to bring them up to 500k as most meter a bit low I find. I have K40Y-9 paper in oil caps, 0.015uf for the neck & 0.022uf for the bridge (that meter correctly) to go into it, 50's wiring of course. Cheers
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syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
Hey Ivan... there's a slight variance to the connection of the cap in the Black Rose scheme on the following illustration. Do you think it would make a difference compared to your pic?
I'm posting the Modern and 50's style wiring for reference:
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
A feature I also like. With the Black Rose scheme they still blend somewhat, but its not at all like the 50's scheme. My two humbucker Jackson has a master volume & tone & its the only thing I don't like about the guitar. I'm seriously thinking about removing the master volume & tone controls, plugging the holes & drilling for a 2 volume 2 tone configuration (50's scheme of course). So much more versatile setup. I'll need to use (Bourns) mini pots to position them properly in the cavity. Cheers
ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
No, no difference. The diagram I posted earlier & the one you posted above have the tone caps grounding in a different place is all, but ground is ground either way, so its still the same circuit. Cheers
chilipeppermaniac
Ambassador of Decibels
Good ole Bid was good for tech stuff tho.
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ivan H
Ambassador of Tubes & Grooves
No problem, glad I could help clear it up. The Black Rose type tone setup is common in many guitars, whether 2 vol/2 tone,,, master vol/master tone,, 1 vol/2 tone etc. Ibanez, Jackson, Squier & many others connect the tone cap this way so chances are you've already experienced it.
Yes, I wonder where Biddlin is. Sure hope he's ok. Cheers
syscokid
Ambassador of War & Peace
Biddlin is OK. He still posts at ETSG, but nowhere near as much as he used to. I too, miss that cantankerous crabby old S.O.B. (and I mean that in a most respectable way).
Hmmm....I think most of my stuff is 50's style. When I started out, I had Tone Man do all my harnesses.
I did my own harness on the VH Double Neck, but its odd in that it has two separate harnesses and only a master volume and tone for each pair of SLE-101's so i'm not sure what style this wiring really is????
I did my own harness on the VH Double Neck, but its odd in that it has two separate harnesses and only a master volume and tone for each pair of SLE-101's so i'm not sure what style this wiring really is????
Sp8ctre
Ambassador of Steel
Can't make that out to well, can you spell it out please?