Attention Vette Lovers

From the Motor Trend Website. December 17, 2019 Their driver (Randy Probst) beat the C8 on a 3.3 mile road course with GT500...noting the C8 displayed midcorner understeer and drop throttle oversteer, "In fact, the 'Vette transfers weight rearward so well that it sometimes goes into another kind of slide: understeer. The front loses grip a bit prematurely as a result of the light front loads..."

"The GT500 has that magic combination of steering response at the limit: the ability to tighten its line while loaded laterally in the middle of a corner, without losing grip at the back..."

I forget everything intentionally but these two points - understeer and mid-corner anomalies will kill you quickly...
Interesting that you should mention this. The 2020 entry level Corvette was set up for street use where you do not see problems with understeer that you would encounter on a closed circuit race track. Randy Probst was also given a track prepped Vette to use on the track. All that was done was to adjust the camber. This should address your concerns about a top of the line Mustang designed for track use compared to the entry level Corvette designed for daily driver street use. I look forward to seeing the new Z06 and ZR1 compete against the GT250 or GT500. I would include the GT Mk II, but I don't think that the average guy on the street can buy one of these.

 
It all comes down to personal preference. I’m a Chevy guy. Have been for a very long time. I commute in a 12 year old Honda Civic that’ll hit 200K this time next year. I do have a 77 Vette parked in the garage for my Chevy fix and regardless any short coming in the latest generation Vettes, they are multiple light years better than my C3. In comparison, my 77 is no better than a Vega. The C1-C3 was basically your grandmas Malibu/Impala under that plastic body.

As for the current monster Vettes/Mustangs/Hellcats.... 95% of the general population should not own one. We can’t handle that much power and handling. Self included. Every one of these car will top any speed limit in first gear. Can triple the open highway speed limit. Where I live one has to seak out a road that has a 55 mph limit. Most roads I drive are 35-45. Even my crappy civic can break those limits in first gear. Do I really need 600hp?

As for brand loyalty. I was a kid in the late 60s early 70s. I would have donated a testicle for a 1969 Charger.... Boss 302.... Shelby GT 500..... 427 Cobra..... Vette..... Z28...... 442....... SS396 Chevelle....... well.... you get the idea.
 
Interesting that you should mention this. The 2020 entry level Corvette was set up for street use where you do not see problems with understeer that you would encounter on a closed circuit race track. Randy Probst was also given a track prepped Vette to use on the track. All that was done was to adjust the camber. This should address your concerns about a top of the line Mustang designed for track use compared to the entry level Corvette designed for daily driver street use. I look forward to seeing the new Z06 and ZR1 compete against the GT250 or GT500. I would include the GT Mk II, but I don't think that the average guy on the street can buy one of these.


Reports that I have received from guys who have driven the C8 concepts - personally - have told me it's a killer, no matter how it's adjusted, and it's not related to an alignment settings, but inherent to the design. Just wait until they hit the streets with casual/lazy drivers. Used parts will be readily available.

It's been a while since I raced competitively, but I did teach for quite some time and, up until very recently, I was still racking cars for clients on a closed course to ensure they were ready for competitive events.

The C8 is faster through the corners, yes, but take something like a Subaru WRX, which we have watched as they repeatedly destroy Corvette's on the race course, even with average drivers, and the C8 ceases to become such a big deal.

I've driven a few cars on the racetrack, and I would not say that I am an expert shoe, but perhaps an above average driver would be sufficiently descriptive. I'm not a huge fan of mid engine layout. I do feel the Gallardo is the best handling mid engine/AWD I have ever driven, and I taught driving instruction from the Super Trofeo, which I feel very comfortable in. I have also been tracking the GT since 2005, when I was first introduced to the new generation GT's.

I'm kinda shocked that the hype of the C8 seems to blind everyone to the repeated GM V8 engine failures, (for which GM still blames MObil 1 which isn't blowing up AMG's and M BMW's) poor platform history and a history of poorly fitted, poorly finished Corvettes.

But, for some, cheap is the only prerequisite...and the Corvette has always been - and felt - cheap...

I have a colleague who just ordered one. I will be sure now to track it when the opportunity arises....

Ford GT.jpg2005 GT.jpgFord GT Interior.jpgAventador.jpg
 
It all comes down to personal preference. I’m a Chevy guy. Have been for a very long time. I commute in a 12 year old Honda Civic that’ll hit 200K this time next year. I do have a 77 Vette parked in the garage for my Chevy fix and regardless any short coming in the latest generation Vettes, they are multiple light years better than my C3. In comparison, my 77 is no better than a Vega. The C1-C3 was basically your grandmas Malibu/Impala under that plastic body.

As for the current monster Vettes/Mustangs/Hellcats.... 95% of the general population should not own one. We can’t handle that much power and handling. Self included. Every one of these car will top any speed limit in first gear. Can triple the open highway speed limit. Where I live one has to seak out a road that has a 55 mph limit. Most roads I drive are 35-45. Even my crappy civic can break those limits in first gear. Do I really need 600hp?

As for brand loyalty. I was a kid in the late 60s early 70s. I would have donated a testicle for a 1969 Charger.... Boss 302.... Shelby GT 500..... 427 Cobra..... Vette..... Z28...... 442....... SS396 Chevelle....... well.... you get the idea.

Correct!!! From 1955 until 1982 (there were no 1983 Corvettes) the Corvette used the 55/56/57 SLA front suspension and ram-actuated recirculated ball power steering. I've actually driven quite a few of the early Corvette's in gymkhana events, and I have to say their performance was impressive...

I came really close to buying a demon Challenger when they first came out, just because I had a 1970 and liked the retro styling, but the handling and braking turned me off big time. In retrospect, I'm glad I didn't waste the $$$ on that and instead spent the $$$ on people less fortunate in my wife's home country...
 
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I should add. I have always thought the Ford GT was one sexy looking car. That and the Porsche 917 that ran the sports car circuits. Today’s IMSA cars look nice and all, but with a purpose. Not as sexy as the older ones I grew up watching.
 
I also have loved the Ford GT line since the 60's GT40. I've also like the AC cobra and Pantera. I've never owned any of them, but I did own a 1996 Taurus that I changed the oil faithfully every 3k miles and the engine still blew at 60k. My wifes PT Cruiser now has 170k miles and is still going.
 
I should add. I have always thought the Ford GT was one sexy looking car. That and the Porsche 917 that ran the sports car circuits. Today’s IMSA cars look nice and all, but with a purpose. Not as sexy as the older ones I grew up watching.

I always loved the Ford GT-40 and the newer Ford GT. I also loved the 917 and have built several of the 4.9 Litre Flat 12's for them. I've also been blessed to have been able to break one of them in around Laguna-Seca....

917 Flat 12.jpg
 
I also have loved the Ford GT line since the 60's GT40. I've also like the AC cobra and Pantera. I've never owned any of them, but I did own a 1996 Taurus that I changed the oil faithfully every 3k miles and the engine still blew at 60k. My wifes PT Cruiser now has 170k miles and is still going.

Pantera....

Probably my absolute favorite...Italian design and Ford 351 4V Clevealnd, mated to a ZF transaxle...

That's interesting!!!!

The same engine was used in the first-gen Mini's and it had a horrible reputation in that platform.

Did you know MBZ is using both Peugeot and Renault 4 cylinder engines in their new models????
 
Cars are indeed not what the used to be.
*Fiat (Fix It Again Tony) now called Fiat Chrysler Automobiles owns Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Maserati, and Ram.
*BMW Group owns BMW, Mini, and Rolls-Royce.
*Jaguar Land Rover PLC is a British premium automaker headquartered in Whitley, Coventry, United Kingdom, and has been a wholly owned subsidiary of Tata (I said tata :p) Motors since June 2008, when it was acquired from Ford Motor Company of USA.
*Volkswagen Group owns Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Porsche, and Volkswagen.
 
Oh yeah. It’s obvious Robert loves his Fords and Wav his Chevies. Yet thru it all, they’ve stayed civil.
:gotta-love:
I used to own a few Chevy's in my day. A couple of Camaros, a Chevelle, a couple of Blazers. I also owned Mopars, 2 Challengers and a Cuda. I don't consider myself a Chevy guy, a Mopar gut or a Mitsubishi guy. I'm a car guy. I appreciate a lot of great cars no matter what car company logo it's tattooed with.

As far as remaining civil... I have the utmost respect for Robert. His accomplishments, his talent and his generosity. All members here are tolerant of other members choice of instrument, there is no reason not to be tolerant to other members choice of cars... That is unless toy drive a Yugo :hide:
 
I used to own a few Chevy's in my day. A couple of Camaros, a Chevelle, a couple of Blazers. I also owned Mopars, 2 Challengers and a Cuda. I don't consider myself a Chevy guy, a Mopar gut or a Mitsubishi guy. I'm a car guy. I appreciate a lot of great cars no matter what car company logo it's tattooed with.
My apologies. I too am primarily a car guy like you.... but being a Gear head, Chevy kinda became my chosen brand. I’ve grown to understand the small block Chevy and how to make it go.

And I forgot to mention the 1970 Challenger TA. I might have given two you know what for that one.
 
I'm just a humble musician and a somewhat opinionated car guy. But, i vehemently hate seeing things passed off as "innovation" when its just a copy of someone else's innovation. GM seems to have a real penchant for this.

I have a Corvette freak music colleague. He's the most real guy ive met. About the new Corvette he remarked, "its just a copy of Lamborghini, nothing new. Its cheap..and i like cheap. Corvette engines are a joke. Corvette has never been a leader in anything but a cheap car, but I can get a lot of poonanny with a Vette That's why i pre-ordered one...."

He makes the most sense of all the Vette enthusiasts ive met.
 
I'm just a humble musician and a somewhat opinionated car guy. But, i vehemently hate seeing things passed off as "innovation" when its just a copy of someone else's innovation. GM seems to have a real penchant for this.

I have a Corvette freak music colleague. He's the most real guy ive met. About the new Corvette he remarked, "its just a copy of Lamborghini, nothing new. Its cheap..and i like cheap. Corvette engines are a joke. Corvette has never been a leader in anything but a cheap car, but I can get a lot of poonanny with a Vette That's why i pre-ordered one...."

He makes the most sense of all the Vette enthusiasts ive met.

Who copied who?

1953 Chevrolet introduces the Corvette...


1955 Ford introduces the Thunderbird...

Again I sak... Who copied who?
 
I saw this turbine concept car in person when I was a kid. My father was a house painter and this car was there at the paint store getting turpentine for the fuel tank.
 
Who copied who?

1953 Chevrolet introduces the Corvette...


1955 Ford introduces the Thunderbird...

Again I sak... Who copied who?

Other than both being a two-seater design, there's little to compare. The Ford styling is elegant, and the two do not share similar lines, like the C8 and the GT.

The Ford had a supercharged 312 V8 to Corvette's 270 CID GMC school bus engine.

I always liked how the T-bird looked.
 
Other than both being a two-seater design, there's little to compare. The Ford styling is elegant, and the two do not share similar lines, like the C8 and the GT.

The Ford had a supercharged 312 V8 to Corvette's 270 CID GMC school bus engine.

I always liked how the T-bird looked.
Well prior to the 1955 Thunderbird, the closest thing to a roadster Ford offered was hot rodders were doing with '32-'34.
47230632_490707759220399_Orig.jpg


Chevy was two years ahead of Ford making a production 2 seat sports car. Ford has undoubtedly had some very nice styling, but the similarity in design of the T-Bird and Vette is more than obvious to me.
 
Now do the 2020 Corvette and the Ford GT have similar styling? Of coarse they do. They need to be aerodynamic to go fast and cut wind resistance. They also need to provide air to the engine requiring air inlet ducting. This is not an original idea from Ford or Chevy.

Corvette
s-l640.jpg


Ford GT
2019-ford-gt-gulf-livery-heritage-0.jpg


Ferrari
0c.jpg


I personally think that the Ford GT looks a lot more like the Ferrari and the Vette looks like the GT.
 
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