Session 5
Ambassador of Strings & Wings
Tonewood v Semi-Hollow
- Thread starter RVA
- Start date
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- semi-hollow tonewood
can't say the other word for winkie.
OP
RVA
Ambassador
You got 2 of 6 correct
Tony M.
Ambassador
Non musician people hear with there eyes.
"I saw soandso last night. They were great!"
If you play a blazing red explorer and a brown
ES 335/345/etc. at the exact same volume
many people will think the explorer is louder.
That being said, Vesuvius and Maria have the same hardware, strings and setup.
If I play them through the same amplifier they sound very different to me.
Is it the wood or am I "hearing with my eyes"?
Vesuvius
Maria
"I saw soandso last night. They were great!"
If you play a blazing red explorer and a brown
ES 335/345/etc. at the exact same volume
many people will think the explorer is louder.
That being said, Vesuvius and Maria have the same hardware, strings and setup.
If I play them through the same amplifier they sound very different to me.
Is it the wood or am I "hearing with my eyes"?
Vesuvius
Maria
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
I absolutely believe that wood species and construction have huge impacts on the tone, have never argued otherwise. I'll even dig deeper into my own bias and say that I believe some are better than others for electric guitars (at least ones used to play rock/metal). And I believe with conviction that maple necks have a huge impact on the tone (at least with Gibsons) - bright may not be the right word but they definitely present the notes differently than mahogany.
But I disagree with the semi's sound "airy" thing. To me, they have a scooped upper midrange, and a less pronounced bite when you dig in, but they are smooth and solid sounding and very dynamic.
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
Two different guitars, two different sounds. I can pick up 10 different Les Pauls, and while they will all "sound like a Les Paul" every one will still sound unique.
OP
RVA
Ambassador
Every person "of faith" can never pick the wood out of a sound clip when called on to do so. The internet is full of them. It usually devolves into an argument about why the clips are unworthy of the task. When I see someone who can do this, I will change my mind. I would challenge Tom Anderson and Paul Reed Smith to ID the wood of their own guitars and would lay down money that they would fail.
mdubya
Well-Known Member
I have recorded my SG Classic and my LP 50's Tribute back to back through the exact same rig. They both had the same standard issue Gibson A5 8.0k ohms P-90's. They sounded significantly different. My guess is the LP neck joint (16th fret) contributed to the difference. The SG was more mid focused, the LP had more highs and lows with equal mids. My ES 330 has underwound A2 P-90's and sounds different again. And my ES Les Paul with its nearly hollow construction (moreso than 335 construction) and humbuckers can sound more like the ES 330 than any of them. 
My 2 ES 335's sound and feel completely different to each other.
But my Sheraton with '57 Classics (3 piece maple neck, poly finish, etc) sounded VERY similar to the 335 with '57 Classics.
That said, I posted blind sound clips of the SG vs. LP to both mlp and to etsg, several years ago. Both forums guessed 75% wrong as to which was which, with heavy biases about what an LP and SG should sound like, both forums getting it overwhelmingly wrong.
One of my 335's and my Firebird both have Tom Holmes 450/455 pickups and the same 500k 50's wiring harnesses, caps and everything. They do have similar characteristics with the pickups, but they do not sound the same. The 335 is a little bit fatter and sweeter, the Firebird has that similar SG mid focus.
I try not to worry too much. If I like the way a guitar plays and sounds, I am good.
I remember several years back a guy posted a live video of himself with his LP through a JTM 45 (reissue or clone, not the real thing), playing one of the infamous Beano/Clapton tone landmark tunes. People were going nuts; "OMGOMGOMGOMGOM!!!11!?!@?!?//1! what pickups? That totally nails the Clapton Beano tone? OMG is that the long lost Beano guitar? OMGOMGOMG!!!1!@!"
Turned out to be a modern LP with 57 Classics. The crowd favor turned. "I knew it. Nice playing but the tone was miles off the real thing, etc..."
Case in point, the Jimmy Page "Les Paul through a Marshall tone" is usually a Tele through a Supro with a Tone Bender. Go figure.
My 2 ES 335's sound and feel completely different to each other.
But my Sheraton with '57 Classics (3 piece maple neck, poly finish, etc) sounded VERY similar to the 335 with '57 Classics.That said, I posted blind sound clips of the SG vs. LP to both mlp and to etsg, several years ago. Both forums guessed 75% wrong as to which was which, with heavy biases about what an LP and SG should sound like, both forums getting it overwhelmingly wrong.
One of my 335's and my Firebird both have Tom Holmes 450/455 pickups and the same 500k 50's wiring harnesses, caps and everything. They do have similar characteristics with the pickups, but they do not sound the same. The 335 is a little bit fatter and sweeter, the Firebird has that similar SG mid focus.
I try not to worry too much. If I like the way a guitar plays and sounds, I am good.
I remember several years back a guy posted a live video of himself with his LP through a JTM 45 (reissue or clone, not the real thing), playing one of the infamous Beano/Clapton tone landmark tunes. People were going nuts; "OMGOMGOMGOMGOM!!!11!?!@?!?//1! what pickups? That totally nails the Clapton Beano tone? OMG is that the long lost Beano guitar? OMGOMGOMG!!!1!@!"
Turned out to be a modern LP with 57 Classics. The crowd favor turned. "I knew it. Nice playing but the tone was miles off the real thing, etc..."
Case in point, the Jimmy Page "Les Paul through a Marshall tone" is usually a Tele through a Supro with a Tone Bender. Go figure.
That’s been my experience, too. When I first got a semi-hollow I sort of had that “airy” expectation. But, it’s really the opposite.
mdubya
Well-Known Member
My experience with semi and full hollow is they are looser the more an amp is pushed, with a solid body holding together longer and deeper into high gain territory. But up to a point, with vintage tones, or low gain, they are almost indistinguishable. Sort of. I would say 335 type vs. LP, anyway. The slabs (even LP Specials and Juniors) tend to have that mid focus thing that SG's and Explorers and V's and some Firebirds have.
I think the 335 types also have more depth on the warmer, mellower side of things that a solid body guitar can't quite touch. And a full hollow goes a little bit further in that depth. And gets looser and falls apart sooner as volume and gain increases. i.e. You can get raunchier tones with less volume a drive as the guitar body gets more hollow. JMHO.
Some people have no use for such things. Others thrive off of such things.
Think of Brian Setzer with his hollow Gretsches vs if he were using an LP or SG or Explorer.
Agreed.
gball
Ambassador of Boogie
Well I'm not going to base anything I believe or don't believe on internet wisdom or sound clips. I know what I hear and feel when I have a guitar in my hands playing through an actual amplifier and that's all I need. I'm not particularly interested in convincing anyone else, and frankly don't care what they think, so you can call it faith or label it anyway you choose but it's one of those "I know what I know" things, and I will believe it isn't true when I stop hearing and feeling it in the real world.
Tony M.
Ambassador
Thank you.
mdubya
Well-Known Member
One of the more curious things I have read is people claiming they can feel the air pulsing in and out of the F holes on semi and full hollow guitars. 
Now, I am not saying it isn't true, but my first electric was indeed a full hollow, I have had a semi hollow continually since 1996, and I currently have a small army of semi and full hollow guitars. I have never felt this phenomenon myself.
Partial proof and an excuse to post photos:
Now, I am not saying it isn't true, but my first electric was indeed a full hollow, I have had a semi hollow continually since 1996, and I currently have a small army of semi and full hollow guitars. I have never felt this phenomenon myself.
Partial proof and an excuse to post photos:
Just a minor correction...
Maxing the volume and tone controls does not minimize their effects.
In the volume pot, the wiper forms an infinitely variable voltage divider, which determines how much of the signal passes downstream. Because of this, it’s tempting to think that the volume pot is essentially bypassed at 10 because the the wiper is connected to the input from the pickup at that terminal. However, the pickup is wired across the entire value of the volume put. Hence, the pickup always “sees” the entire value of the pot, regardless of wiper position. The pot becomes a parallel resistance across the pickup, and downstream circuitry. This is why replacing a 250k pot with a 500k pot will result in a slightly different tonality, even when maxed.
As for the tone pot, at maximum (10), the entire value of the potentiometer is in the circuit, along with the capacitor. The more resistance value you have in the tone circuit, the lesser the influence of the capacitor, minimizing the treble cut. At Zero, the resistance of the tone pot is essentially bypassed, leaving only the capacitor in the tone circuit, maximizing treble cut.
No trying to be a bung-hole, but this stuck out to me!
OP
RVA
Ambassador
My parents used to give me a similar answer when I asked a question. It went like this:"Because I said so!" Feels like old times.